The Personal Guard

[M. Porcius Cato]

Everybody knows about the praetorian guard, but I'm wondering about the origin of the personal guard for generals. The earliest use I can find is the group of Celtiberians who surrounded Sertorius. Caesar later had 900 German and Gallic cavalry as a bodyguard (obviously not with him at all times), but are these the only precedents for Romans using a personal guard for their commanders?

[Rameses the Great]

The Roman generals always had the best cavalymen at his side during battle. If he would go into a battle, they would assist him. The praetorian guard is the advanced form of the early and legionay cohort. The praetorian eventually evolved into the urban cohorts. The practice of having personal bodyguard members is nothing old at all. They would be equipped with the best armour and to make sure they protect the general at all costs.

 

P.S. does anyone have Rome Total War?

[Germanicus]

P.S. does anyone have Rome Total War?

 

Yes...I can see thats where you got your information from. Be careful, it's far from historicly accurate and nothing like a good book to get your information from.

 

What Cato wants is an actual historical reference pre Sertorius ? Do you have one ?

[M. Porcius Cato]

Sigh. I wonder how much Roman history people pick up from war games. This kind of thing is always popping up.

[Furius Venator]

Well Pompey is allaged to have participated in hand-to-hand fighting in his younger days as general (pre civil war). Presumably he did so with a bodyguard. I grant you, that is no earlier than Sertorius and not conclusive. As time allows I'll scour the sources, it's a very interesting question.

[Primus Pilus]

Sigh. I wonder how much Roman history people pick up from war games. This kind of thing is always popping up.

 

On the positive side, at least it seems to inspire many to look deeper.

 

At any rate, I recall Livy mentioning a concept of the praetoria regarding Scipio Africanus as far back as the Second Punic War, but I can't find the appropriate passages.

 

The first lasting idea of the cohors praetoria comes from Scipio Aemilianus and the siege of Numantia in 133 BC.

 

From Appian:

He did not take any army by levy because the city was exhausted by so many wars, and because there were plenty of soldiers in Spain. With the Senate's consent he took a certain number of volunteers sent to him by cities and kings on the score of private friendship. To these were added 500 of his clients and friends whom he joined in one body and called it the troop of friends. All these, about 4,000 in number, he put under marching orders in charge of Buteo, his nephew, while he went in advance with a small escort to the army in Spain, having heard that it was full of idleness, discord, and luxury, and well knowing that he could never overcome the enemy unless he should first bring his own men under strict discipline.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Amazing PP--how you find this stuff so fast never ceases to impress.

[Primus Pilus]

Amazing PP--how you find this stuff so fast never ceases to impress.

 

Well, I sure can't find that Livy passage

[caldrail]

Everybody knows about the praetorian guard, but I'm wondering about the origin of the personal guard for generals. The earliest use I can find is the group of Celtiberians who surrounded Sertorius. Caesar later had 900 German and Gallic cavalry as a bodyguard (obviously not with him at all times), but are these the only precedents for Romans using a personal guard for their commanders?

 

Didn't Caligula have a personal unit of germans? I think Nero did something similar too but for for soldiers over 6' in height (military capability a low priority there I think)

 

Oh - before I forget, Septimus Severus replaced the praetorians with his own men on gaining power.

Edited April 11, 2006 by caldrail

[M. Porcius Cato]

Didn't Caligula have a personal unit of germans? I think Nero did something similar too but for for soldiers over 6' in height (military capability a low priority there I think)

 

Yes, but Sertorius predated Caligula by about 150 years.

[Rameses the Great]

Yes...I can see thats where you got your information from. Be careful, it's far from historicly accurate and nothing like a good book to get your information from.

 

It is historically accurate. I don't know about you guys in other parts of the world, but if you people in America remember decisive battles on the history channel (two yeays ago) it is based on Rome Total War. They depict battles such as Cynophaclese, Asculum, Carrhae, and the River Trebia accurately. THey tell about the history and the battle scenarios are second to none. It shows how you can outsmart you opponent and how to defeat them if you are at a disadvantage. As for the book, its all based on how to play the game...or am I just thinking of the pamphlet. Oh well.

[M. Porcius Cato]

I don't know about you guys in other parts of the world, but if you people in America remember decisive battles on the history channel (two yeays ago) it is based on Rome Total War.

 

The Decisive Battles series used the graphics engine of the game for purposes of illustration, but it didn't rely on the game for its historical content.

[Rameses the Great]

True, but the game cinematics were that of Rome Total War. The Battle of Raphia, the River Trebia, and The Battle of Asculum, was based on histroical content. Good call though it is accurately playing wise, but not accurate to get your inforamtion from.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Rameses the Great

[PerfectimusPrime]

Rome: Total War is so full of blantant historical inaccuracies that... you shouldn't use it as a source for historical infromation - never.

Edited April 11, 2006 by PerfectimusPrime

[Rameses the Great]

I don't use it for historical information. I use it for game cinematics to see how scenarios would have played out. You guys may think that this is where I get my information from, I don't. I get it from books at my local library to see the details of the battle. Games are not meant to teach you a history lesson. Instead they are used for fun, yes, but mainly used to bring you up close to the battles, and how it would have been fought out.