Tuscany's Etruscan Claim Knocked

[Viggen]

The Tuscans' proud claim to be the descendants of the ancient Etruscans has taken a knock .A DNA comparison of Etruscan skeletons and a sample of living Tuscans has thrown up only "tenuous genetic similarities", said lead researcher Guido Barbujani of Ferrara University. "If the Tuscans were the direct descendants of the Etruscans the DNA should be the same," said Barbujani, a genetecist who coordinated the study with Stanford University in the United States.

 

via Ansa.it

[docoflove1974]

"If the Tuscans were the direct descendants of the Etruscans the DNA should be the same," said Barbujani, a genetecist who coordinated the study with Stanford University in the United States.

 

 

 

I guess the question would be: after Roman dominance, would there be any modern peoples who would have a 'significant' DNA connection to the Etruscans? I was under the impression that the Romans pretty much wiped out their former rivals?

[Ursus]

Non-Roman Italians were absorbed rather than wiped out. Their nobility became Equestrians and then Senators by the Principate. Sejanus was either an Etruscan or a Volscan, as I recall.

[docoflove1974]

Non-Roman Italians were absorbed rather than wiped out. Their nobility became Equestrians and then Senators by the Principate. Sejanus was either an Etruscan or a Volscan, as I recall.

 

Ah...well, then, with all the intermixing, I come back to my point...I doubt that there is any area of Italy which has a 'significant' DNA match with the Etruscans.

[Virgil61]

The first thing that pops to mind is that perhaps the majority of those were called "Etruscans" were originally indigenous to Italy and the elites, as mentioned, were the members and descendents of an Etruscan conquering ruling class who'd spread their language and culture. Similar to and on a smaller scale than the Norman conquest maybe.

[phil25]

Surely one has also to take into account the later invasions and occupations of Italy by peoples such as the Goths and Lombards.

 

Are modern Italians directly related to Romans or (say) C1st AD Italians? Did the Oscans or Samnites (for instance) survive as genetically intact? Does anyone here know? Personally, I suspect not, but I'd be interested in any research that's been done.

 

Phil

[sullafelix]

Surely one has also to take into account the later invasions and occupations of Italy by peoples such as the Goths and Lombards.

 

Are modern Italians directly related to Romans or (say) C1st AD Italians? Did the Oscans or Samnites (for instance) survive as genetically intact? Does anyone here know? Personally, I suspect not, but I'd be interested in any research that's been done.

 

Phil

 

The Samnites are very unlikely to show much DNA link to the modern day. They were almost entirely wiped out in the First Century BC. By Oscans I assume you mean Oscan speakers and that is really hard to say because they comprised several tribes.

 

I have to say I find the Tuscan not Etruscan discovery quite a surprise myself I would be intrigued to find out how the DNA record in ancient times compares to profiles today in some of the less popular parts of Itlay like Calabria (modern) or Puglia.

[Pantagathus]

So they test a few bits of ancient DNA against the modern population and come to some irritating conclusion. The Tuscans can still lay claim as far as I'm concerned becuase none of us doubt where the Etruscan territory was. There has been such population flux between now and then that of course there will be some disparity.

 

However, another way to look at it is if 1000+ years from now, the population of western North Carolina claims a connection to the Cherokee Indians. Obviously by that time, few traces of actual Cherokee DNA are going to be found amongst the population but does that mean that population can't be proud of it's territorial legacy?

[Virgil61]

Surely one has also to take into account the later invasions and occupations of Italy by peoples such as the Goths and Lombards.

 

Are modern Italians directly related to Romans or (say) C1st AD Italians? Did the Oscans or Samnites (for instance) survive as genetically intact? Does anyone here know? Personally, I suspect not, but I'd be interested in any research that's been done.

 

Phil

 

My guess--and it's just that--is a number of Italians in the cental-southern regions retain a large amount of the DNA of latin tribes simply because of the number of isolated or difficult to access cities and villages in the mountains. Unfortunately for a large part of Tuscany it's sits at the foot of the spine of mountains the Appenines make up for Italy and they're right on the avenue of approach to Rome for any invaders.

 

A number of areas in the very southern portion of Italy still speak Greek and or keep some Greek traditions. Doesn't necessarily mean their DNA is all Greek of course but it does hint that whatever intermixing took place the original Maegna Gracia culture took hundreds of years to dwindle to it's present state. This old BBC article covers some research on the southern Italian population's link to the original greek inhabitants. I'm wondering if it was related to the Tuscan study in some way and what if any outcome there's been.

 

 

...

However, another way to look at it is if 1000+ years from now, the population of western North Carolina claims a connection to the Cherokee Indians. Obviously by that time, few traces of actual Cherokee DNA are going to be found amongst the population but does that mean that population can't be proud of it's territorial legacy?

 

What's funny is every third North Carolinian I've ever met claims to be part-Cherokee. You'd think they were the most DNA spreading bunch of people that ever lived. Surprisingly no one wants to admit being a Lumbee though.

[Pantagathus]

What's funny is every third North Carolinian I've ever met claims to be part-Cherokee. You'd think they were the most DNA spreading bunch of people that ever lived. Surprisingly no one wants to admit being a Lumbee though.

 

Same goes for Catawba... I suspect most of the Charlottians who made the Cherokee ancenstor claim were wrong only in tribe.

[Virgil61]

Just found another slightly more in-depth article by Stanford's news service.

 

This caught my eye:

The findings suggest that something either suddenly wiped out the Etruscans or the group represented a social elite that had little in common with the people who became the true ancestors of Tuscans, said Joanna Mountain, assistant professor of anthropological sciences.

 

Presumably a conquering and ruling elite so small it's DNA left only slight, if any, traces seems plausible enough.

Edited May 18, 2006 by Virgil61