Josephus' ''records Office''

[frankq]

Here's something that has me stymied. See what your opinion is.

 

Some theorists have proposed that one of the reasons why the authorities were so alarmed at Jesus turning over the moneylenders tables in the Outer Court was that his ultimate design was, backed by his followers (many with a Zealot rap sheet), to get hold of all records from the moneylenders and all debts owed by the peasantry, all archived within the precincts of the Temple.

 

OK. Cool. Why then does Josephus suddenly consign all these documents to a ''records office'' located in the Upper City? Judea, as a Roman province, had two administrative command posts in Jerusalem, the Antonia, and Herod's palace, which was headquarters for all procurators when in the holy city. As far as all local debts were concerned, the safest place for them was, indeed, inside the temple. And if the powers that be wanted them really under lock and key, they would have placed them under Roman custody at the two places mentioned.

 

From where then, comes a ''record office''? I have combed for references to it, even under the Herodian period and can't find any. Yet it surfaces in Josepus' account of the takeover over of the city in 66 AD. He describes the Record Office being in the Upper City. Did he really mean the temple mount and get it wrong?

 

And who am I to question Josephus? He lived in Jerusalem at this time and was not writing years later and after rumored fact.

[phil25]

Rome had a "Tabularium" between the Capitol and the Forum Romanum - why should other cities not have had the same? Did not Hadrian(?) burn many of the debt records of Rome from the "record office" as

depicted on a balustrade now (I think) kept in the Curia building?

 

One of the three "municipal offices" at the end of the forum of Pompeii is often termed a "record office".

 

On that basis might Jerulsalem have had such a building which was not military or official, but maintained civil and municipal records?

 

I also have read that the procurators of judaea used the Herodian palace as their residence when up from Caesaraea, not the Antonia. Or have I been misled?

 

Phil

[frankq]

Rome had a "Tabularium" between the Capitol and the Forum Romanum - why should other cities not have had the same? Did not Hadrian(?) burn many of the debt records of Rome from the "record office" as

depicted on a balustrade now (I think) kept in the Curia building?

 

One of the three "municipal offices" at the end of the forum of Pompeii is often termed a "record office".

 

On that basis might Jerulsalem have had such a building which was not military or official, but maintained civil and municipal records?

 

I also have read that the procurators of judaea used the Herodian palace as their residence when up from Caesaraea, not the Antonia. Or have I been misled?

 

Phil

 

 

Herod's palace was used, yes, and was, in fact called the praetorium. As for a records office being kept in the heart of Jerusalem, I have found no source for it other than this instance and Jerusalem was a seditious city. Anything official would have been behind vaulted doors.

[phil25]

But surely a repository of civil records - marriage agreements, legal agreements, business dealings, wills etc might need to have been secure but would not necessarily have warranted military or government protection. Similarly, a religious record hall would have been protected by the Temple militia under the control of the Sanhedrin, I assume??

 

By the way, are we sure that the word used by Josephus is properly translated?

 

Phil

[frankq]

But surely a repository of civil records - marriage agreements, legal agreements, business dealings, wills etc might need to have been secure but would not necessarily have warranted military or government protection. Similarly, a religious record hall would have been protected by the Temple militia under the control of the Sanhedrin, I assume??

 

By the way, are we sure that the word used by Josephus is properly translated?

 

Phil

 

''Records office'' is the only term I have come across so far. Or ''civic records office''. I don't have access to the Greek version to press further to root out the term.

 

The issue here is that what the Zealots were after were all the records of debts and all the accounts of the moneylenders. I have read somewhere that these were kept for safe keeping inside the Temple, not some accessible and easily raided civic office in the Upper City. But, again,. who am I to question Josephus? I didnt live in 1st Century Jerusalem, he did. I do not doubt that there was a tabularium of some kind in the city, but the debt accounts were a life and death matter. Destroying them meant getting the peasantry and the poor on one's side. Which is why the dissidents went for it when they seized control of the Upper City. (According to Josephus.)

 

The only key is for me to go over the many bios I have on Herod. But I do not recall seeing a reference to him creating a civic house for his domain. Had there been debts, and records, he would have kept them close at hand. (I assume.)