Honorius Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Could anyone please name a few good later roman sources like Johannes. Because im choosing to do my major work for extension history on 'Why Rome fell?' and i need sufficient sources. the problem is i dont know that many and i recall that there are only a few out there..anyway thanks heaps (probably in the wrong section sorry gyts >< ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Can you give us some cut-off points, chronologically? That would make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Can you give us some cut-off points, chronologically? That would make it easier. Indeed... for example by late Roman sources you might be interested in Byzantine Sources or the fall of the west... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 from about 395-476 and thanks PP for the links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Well most of the sources I'd mention are in PP's second link, which leaves me with just a few: - Zonaras (not contemporary but he draws on (now lost) ancient sources.) - Zosimus (mind you, the last part, sack of rome, was lost and 'restored' during the Renaissance). - Liber Pontificalis, an excellent source if somewhat hard to find I'll probably come up with a few more, my memory is slow today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hello Honorius, I see you have found yourself in the same predicament as i was in a year ago, the major project for extension history for the HSC. However, I did my major on the Imperial Roman Army. I see that you have tasked on the perennial topic of "why Rome fell?". I will try to help you in the best way possible in providing you with advice in structuring your major work. Firstly, you need to narrow down on a specific period in Roman history to discuss and investigate. By the 'fall of Rome', do you mean the fall of the western Roman Empire in AD 476 or the eastern Roman Empire(Byzantine) in AD 1453. Secondly, you also have to explicitly consider the nature of your historical investigation. What factors brought about the fall of Rome:social, economic, military, internal weakness, barbarian invasion, loss of tax revenues? What do you consider as the fall of the western Roman Empire (im assuming this is your case study)--the loss of 'Central Romanness'?, the dismantling of the Western Roman empire?, the loss of Latin culture and civilisation? The replacement of Roman political and legal structures by Feudal systems?... Now regarding the sources, during this period in Late Antiquity, primary sources are often hard to come by, what we currently have are a few fragments dating at most to the fifth/sixth centuries AD. There is firstly, Ammianus Marcellinus, writing in the 4th century AD, who discussed about Julian the Apostate, the arrival of the Goths on the Danube, the Wars with the Goths, Emperor Valens' defeat at the battle of Hadrianople. Contemporary sources include Frigiderus, Symmachus, Olympiodorus, Themistius, Priscus (especially with his embassies to the HUns). There are also fragments from Zosimus, Jordanes' Getica, Cassiodorus, the later byzantine extracts, and others. Unfortunately access to these sources, with the excpetion of Ammianus and Priscus, is well nigh difficult, therefore i suggest that you look up on the modern historians such as Gibbon (take gibbon with a pinch of salt), J.B. Bury, Michael Grant, et al. I strongly urge you to get a copy of Peter Heather's book "THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE" (which i have just recently read and thoroughly enjoyed). It contains an exhaustive list of primary and secondary sources, weaving brilliant and insightful analysis with anachronistic wit and colourful narrative. This is a new 'school of history' with regards to your question. Traditional/Orthodox schools of history can be cited from older authors particularly the 19th and 20th century ones. I believe that the question you pose is rather broad and not feasible for a major project of not more than 2,500 words (disregarding the bibliography,notes,etc.) Condensing all the information from this very broad investigation will prove to be a very hard task, well nigh impossible. Several historians and laymen have written BOOKS about the subject. Therefore I suggest picking a more specific case study in the same period that you're interested in, the later Roman Empire lasting roughly from AD 250- AD 476. I suggest you should research more on the events between the Diocletian's establishment of the 'tetrarchy system' to Odovacer's deposement of the last western Roman Emperor, Romulus Augustus. There is a vast array of topics that can be drawn from this period: the creation of the Gothic supergroups( Visigoths and Ostrogoths) and its effect on the empire's fall; the migration of the nomadic Huns and the transformation of the Roman world; the efforts of the Roman generalissimos, such as Stilicho, Aetius, Majorian, in preserving the Roman empire; The battle of Hadrianople and its consequences for the Roman Empire; The barbarian invasions of the 4th-5th centuries AD and its effects on the stability of the Western Roman Empire; Alaric's sack of Rome and its significance; Geiseric and the Vandals' invasion of North Africa; The rise of Attila the Hun, and the list just goes on and on.... Hope I may have heped you out, mate. Aurelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted February 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 how about this one Aurelius Honorius and the Sack of Rome? is that better then just 'why did rome fall'? btw thanks heaps for the help and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted February 9, 2007 Report Share Posted February 9, 2007 how about this one Aurelius Honorius and the Sack of Rome? is that better then just 'why did rome fall'? btw thanks heaps for the help and advice. Good choice, but not an easy one. The MA thesis I'm writing partly revolves around 410, so I may be of some help. PM me if you need anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 As Maladict stated, I think that's a good choice. But also, as Maladict stated, it will involve some deep historical investigation and a background of the events that led to Alaric's sack of rome in 410. I think Maladict will be the expert for this period, as he's doing his MA on the subject, and you should direct your further inquiries to him. Might I suggest a more specific question, like 'the effect of Honorius' imperial policy toward the Goths in bringing about Alaric's sack of Rome' or 'the significance of Alaric's sack of Rome as one of the events that brought about the fall of the western Roman Empire'. or something along those lines. Best of luck, mate. I will try to help you as best as i can with these matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DecimusCaesar Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Check out the bibliography on the Fectio site. It has plenty of links to Late Roman sources as well as Early Dark age ones. I believe I posted the link on this website a few months ago. It should be in the links folder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted February 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 hey guys, sorry i havent replied in ages but ive been bogged down with about 4 assignments in the second week! thanks heaps for all the suggestions and help but i have t hought of a few new ideas how about Constantine: true christian or bloody tyrant? Theodosius the great: saviour of the Empire or harbringer of doom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Hey Honorius, I see that HSC projects are bogging you down. Well, we all have to go through these troubles in one time or another. Anyway, with regards to your suggestions, I should say that the Constantine idea is a better idea in comparison to the 'Theodosius' question. If you go down this particular road, you could specify your historical investigation to Constantine's adoption of Christianity as the official Roman religion, maybe: his unique relationship with Christianity (for example, his use of the religion to gain a secure power base and in upholding the ideology of a divinely ordained Empire and divinely inspired Sole Emperor), OR his efforts that transformed and shaped Christianity and the Roman World (the romanization of Christianity, the repercussions of his Edict Of Milan and the Council of Nicaea,etc.). In the making of your history major work, better specialize yourself in one aspect and limit your scope down a certain particular period or subject. With regards to sources, it's also better to have a mix of both the modern and ancient sources from a variety of mediums: books, journals, manuscripts, archaeological papers( if applicable), videos, even magazines if they're available. It's also a good idea to discuss your thesis with your teacher so that he/she could give some very helpful suggestions/tips and may even lend you data for your project . the Imperial Roman Army rolls on!, Aurelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Constantine: true christian or bloody tyrant? In my reading, not quite either. I suppose you should define "true Christian" and "bloody tyrant." He was an opportunistic heir to the world of Diocletian, who acted with some keen vision and strategy, but was as ruthless as his position demanded. Initially, Christ may have meant little more to him than just another Solar deity whom he could supplicate for victory. As time progressed he helped to define what "true Christian" would mean for the empire. A complicated individual who can't be fit neatly into a narrow category. But a fascinating subject for study, and if anyone finds good sources I am unaware of, please let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) hey guys, sorry i havent replied in ages but ive been bogged down with about 4 assignments in the second week! thanks heaps for all the suggestions and help but i have t hought of a few new ideas how about Constantine: true christian or bloody tyrant? Theodosius the great: saviour of the Empire or harbringer of doom? I'm going to 'vote' against Constantine. The body of scientific work written on him will completely overwhelm you when you have a relatively small assignment. You simply won't have the time to take it all in, nor will you have the space to fit it into your own hypotheses. Unless you really narrow it down you'll end up with either gross generalizations or presenting a premise of your own without acknowledging previous research, which will make you look sloppy or arrogant. Why not give us the specific question you'd like to answer for both Constantine and Theodosius, so we'd getter a better idea? p.s. Lose the sensationalist subtitels, it makes your work look shallow. Edited February 18, 2007 by Maladict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorius Posted February 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) what about.... Honorius and his inability to prevent the sack of Rome in the early 5th century AD? btw my heads going all over the place atm about the subject to choose >< im not a great deicision maker Edited February 19, 2007 by Honorius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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