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[M. Porcius Cato]

The free flow of U.S. dollars for ancient Roman denarii has been the joy of American numismatists for ages. On Monday, that Geldfreude came to an abrupt halt at the borders of Cyprus. According to this NYT article, "new rules...would essentially bar the importation of any ancient coin from Cyprus unless authorized by the Cypriot government. The limits are part of a broader agreement between the United States and the Republic of Cyprus to extend for five years existing restrictions on the import of pre-classical, classical and Byzantine art and artifacts from the island."

 

Maybe somebody should just go annex Cyprus and be done with it... Is Clodius still around?

[ASCLEPIADES]

Interesting article indeed, MPC.

I think you can expect similar measures restricting archeological trade all over the region.

These are apparently sad news for collectors, but probably very good news for the preservation of heritage sites and, therefore, to the study of Classical Antiquity.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Interesting article indeed, MPC.

I think you can expect similar measures restricting archeological trade all over the region.

These are apparently sad news for collectors, but probably very good news for the preservation of heritage sites and, therefore, to the study of Classical Antiquity.

For normal artifacts, I understand the need for the rules. But in the case of coins, it is impossible to enforce and merely attempting to do so will destroy the openness of the coin community, which is indispensable to the dissemination of knowledge.

[ASCLEPIADES]

I am not sure what "normal artifacts" mean, or BTW how much abnormal coins are. I am also not sure that the volume of the booty has much to do with the degree of the damage inflicted on the looted archeological sites.

Let's face it, the openness of the collector community without rules (or with they if not observed), being it for the sake of the dissemination of knowledge or for the greediness of the looters, has done a great damage to the cultural and archeological heritage all around the world, from Mesoamerica to Iraq (not excluding the US).

[M. Porcius Cato]

I am not sure what "normal artifacts" mean, or BTW how much abnormal coins are.

 

Of 1000 coins minted in location A, how many are likely to remain there? Likely, not bloody many--a fact you can check for yourself by tracing the flow of your own dollars all over the place.

 

Of 1000 roof tiles placed in location A, how many are likely to remain there? Likely, most of them, because people don't move their roof tiles willy nilly.

 

This means that if I outlaw trade in Cypriot coins, I'm most likely not protecting ANY sites in Cyprus for the elementary reason that coins minted in Cyprus are not likely to be FOUND in Cyprus. They'll be found all over the Roman world and acquired legally. And if I do find a coin in Cyprus, there is no way anyone could know that I found it there as opposed to a zillion other possible locations.

 

The only practical consequence of this law is that coin dealers are going to find it irritating to point out these facts to some measly bureaucrat, and they're simply going to quit advertising coins minted in Cyprus (there weren't that many) so that they'll be left alone.

[ASCLEPIADES]

This means that if I outlaw trade in Cypriot coins, I'm most likely not protecting ANY sites in Cyprus for the elementary reason that coins minted in Cyprus are not likely to be FOUND in Cyprus. They'll be found all over the Roman world and acquired legally. And if I do find a coin in Cyprus, there is no way anyone could know that I found it there as opposed to a zillion other possible locations.

Quoting this NYT article:

 

"Cyprus has said the restrictions are necessary to combat the looting of cultural and archaeological sites, particularly in the northern part of the island, which has been divided from the south since Turkey invaded in 1974.

Archaeologists frequently use coins to help them date ancient sites; they say that treasure hunters using metal detectors to look for coins often wreck potentially important archaeological discoveries."

 

I would think that these rules are for coins remaining in Cyprus, irrespectively of where they were minted.

I think you're right, it should be very difficult to find coins in any archeological site anywhere. But it is still more difficult to find them elsewhere. That's why archeologists search there. Besides, if I were a looter, I would probably take my chances anyway.

[M. Porcius Cato]

"Cyprus has said the restrictions are necessary to combat the looting of cultural and archaeological sites, particularly in the northern part of the island, which has been divided from the south since Turkey invaded in 1974.

Archaeologists frequently use coins to help them date ancient sites; they say that treasure hunters using metal detectors to look for coins often wreck potentially important archaeological discoveries."

Right--the rationale is understandable, but the remedy makes no sense. To protect sites, the Cypriot government can pass all the laws they like, erect barriers, whatever. That might even prove successful. It's also reasonable to sign treaties (which they already had with the US) that would ban the sale of unique antiquities like sculptures and the like. None of this is new, and none of this is objectionable.

 

What's new and objectionable is putting ancient coins on the list of antiquities. No other nation has such a treaty with the US (or anyone else, as far as I know). The reason that coins aren't included is precisely the one that I stated earlier--the source of an ancient coin on the market is impossible to determine. All that can be determined (at best) is where the coin was minted and where it is being sold, neither of which is relevant to the cause of protecting archaeological sites in Cyprus. The only thing that could help--and this is my real fear--is the banning of ALL sales of ancient coins. And, frankly, I don't think it's right to do that for a very long list of reasons.

[ASCLEPIADES]

What's new and objectionable is putting ancient coins on the list of antiquities. No other nation has such a treaty with the US (or anyone else, as far as I know).

I think it's only a matter of time.

[M. Porcius Cato]

What's new and objectionable is putting ancient coins on the list of antiquities. No other nation has such a treaty with the US (or anyone else, as far as I know).

I think it's only a matter of time.

It's a terrible idea nonetheless. Of all the ways to protect ancient sites, this is the clumsiest and least effective.

[ASCLEPIADES]

The only thing that could help--and this is my real fear--is the banning of ALL sales of ancient coins. And, frankly, I don't think it's right to do that for a very long list of reasons.

I don't think that would help. One of the reasons for not being the right thing to do is that it would probably only rise the price unscrupulous collectors would have to pay, making the trade even more lucrative.

[M. Porcius Cato]

The only thing that could help--and this is my real fear--is the banning of ALL sales of ancient coins. And, frankly, I don't think it's right to do that for a very long list of reasons.

I don't think that would help. One of the reasons for not being the right thing to do is that it would probably only rise the price unscrupulous collectors would have to pay, making the trade even more lucrative.

Exactly right.

[Kosmo]

"Cyprus has said the restrictions are necessary to combat the looting of cultural and archaeological sites, particularly in the northern part of the island, which has been divided from the south since Turkey invaded in 1974.

Archaeologists frequently use coins to help them date ancient sites; they say that treasure hunters using metal detectors to look for coins often wreck potentially important archaeological discoveries."

Right--the rationale is understandable, but the remedy makes no sense. To protect sites, the Cypriot government can pass all the laws they like, erect barriers, whatever. That might even prove successful.

 

I'm sure that they will love to put fences around arheological sites in the North, like they did in Paphos, but they can't because the turkish army will not let them. If they cannot control the source they try to control the destination. A futile attempt that will make life difficult only for legitimate dealers.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve, guys! Something is bothering me:

Where do the coins of the legitimate dealers come from?