Life of Brian

[M. Porcius Cato]

For Monty Python fans, enjoy Monty Python and the Works of Josephus.

[Pertinax]

Once again proving the pivotal role of dairy produce in history.

[Flavia Gemina]

'He's not the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy!'

 

(Thought I'd be the first to get that one in! )

 

Flavia

[docoflove1974]

Not fair! Eh, well, my signature trumps all

 

If I recall correctly, at least one of the Python boys has a degree in history, so the fact that they borrowed (heavily or otherwise) from a historical source such as Josephus is not surprising. That, and the movie was/is freaking awesome.

[Nephele]

JEHOVAH!

 

*ducks and runs*

 

-- Nephele

[M. Porcius Cato]

JEHOVAH!

 

Hehehe. Read it HERE; see it

.

 

Also, Doc's favorite scene HERE.

Edited September 9, 2007 by M. Porcius Cato

[vespasian70]

Once again proving the pivotal role of dairy produce in history.

 

'Blessed are the cheesmakers.' Indeed.

[Nephele]

Once again proving the pivotal role of dairy produce in history.

 

'Blessed are the cheesmakers.' Indeed.

 

Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall be called the children of Gouda.

 

-- Nephele

[ASCLEPIADES]

Salve!

 

"Flavius" Josephus is good evidence that you can simultaneously be an extraordinary scholar and a treachorous scoundrel, something like mixing Polybius and Quisling.

 

Wisdom and ethics should never be mixed in the same flask for their analysis.

 

BTW, I really enjoyed this film and I entirely agree with G. J. Goldberg.

Edited September 10, 2007 by ASCLEPIADES

[M. Porcius Cato]

"Flavius" Josephus is good evidence that you can simultaneously be an extraordinary scholar and a treachorous scoundrel, something like mixing Polybius and Quisling.

I totally disagree. Josephus was a greater patriot than any Zealot, and his scholarship was an expression of this patriotism.

 

Wisdom and ethics should never be mixed in the same flask for their analysis.

I would say that in ambiguous situations wisdom is a prerequisite for ethical behavior. The twin notions that morality is an expression of the heart and not the brain and thus that any fool can attain goodness is pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo--an opium for the witless.

[ASCLEPIADES]

"Flavius" Josephus is good evidence that you can simultaneously be an extraordinary scholar and a treachorous scoundrel, something like mixing Polybius and Quisling.

I totally disagree. Josephus was a greater patriot than any Zealot, and his scholarship was an expression of this patriotism.

I must confess this is a first for me. You mean a Roman or a Jewish patriot? If it's the second, please define the concept.

 

Wisdom and ethics should never be mixed in the same flask for their analysis.

I would say that in ambiguous situations wisdom is a prerequisite for ethical behavior. The twin notions that morality is an expression of the heart and not the brain and thus that any fool can attain goodness is pre-scientific mumbo-jumbo--an opium for the witless.

A rock has no ethical behaviour; is hard to disagree. A minimum of cognoscitive level is certainly a prerequisite for ethical behaviour in any direction.

Anyway, I was not exploring the relationship between wisdom and ethics; I simply believe you can and should analyze both personality traits separately when you study any character. I think Leni Riefenstahl was a good filmmaker, and that condition is independent of the ethical considerations of her Nazi propaganda.

[M. Porcius Cato]

Josephus was a greater patriot than any Zealot, and his scholarship was an expression of this patriotism.

I must confess this is a first for me. You mean a Roman or a Jewish patriot? If it's the second, please define the concept.

 

A patriot is a person who wants his country to succeed and is proud of his country's success. Josephus' Antiquities is an extended work of tremendous pride in his nation. Unfortunately, Josephus tends to be known almost entirely for the Jewish Wars, which attempted to justify Roman rule. If you believe, as I do, that Roman rule was (on net) beneficial to Judaea, then these two works are not at all incompatible. It was patriotism that led Josephus to take pride in the successes of historical Judaea and it was patriotism that led him to detest the zealots who stood in the way of further successes.

[The Augusta]

Attracted by the title of this thread, and not to make light of the erudite and enlightening conversation taking place between MPC and Asclepiades, this digression into the finer points of philosophy has reminded me, rather nicely, of the splendid Python song about the drunken philosophers: Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable etc. etc.

[ASCLEPIADES]

Attracted by the title of this thread, and not to make light of the erudite and enlightening conversation taking place between MPC and Asclepiades, this digression into the finer points of philosophy has reminded me, rather nicely, of the splendid Python song about the drunken philosophers: Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable etc. etc.

Touche.

 

Gratiam habeo, Lady A.

[Ingsoc]

Josephus was a greater patriot than any Zealot, and his scholarship was an expression of this patriotism.

I must confess this is a first for me. You mean a Roman or a Jewish patriot? If it's the second, please define the concept.

 

A patriot is a person who wants his country to succeed and is proud of his country's success. Josephus' Antiquities is an extended work of tremendous pride in his nation. Unfortunately, Josephus tends to be known almost entirely for the Jewish Wars, which attempted to justify Roman rule. If you believe, as I do, that Roman rule was (on net) beneficial to Judaea, then these two works are not at all incompatible. It was patriotism that led Josephus to take pride in the successes of historical Judaea and it was patriotism that led him to detest the zealots who stood in the way of further successes.

 

I would agree with you, as to the Jewish War you should note that it's not only justify Roman rule but also try to present the people of Judea in good light as it try to lay all the blame for the revolt on the heads of the zealots we, if we believe to Josephus, were a small minority who dragged the entire peacefull Jewish population to the revolt.

 

However there is another aspect in the life of Josephus beside that of the writer and that of the military leader, he took the office of supreme commander of the Galilee even thought he wasn't full heatrly supportive of the revolt. and indeed we know base on his own account that he still had connection to the Roman side and no doubt that his actions upon the Roman victory of defecting to the enemy while his men were dead or sold to slavery doesn't speak well on his character.