Romans and Mental Health

[caldrail]

But shouting, screeching and heart-rendering battle-cries, seige engines firing and archers volleying, the gush of blood, screams of agony, boulders and ballista bolts tearing through people cutting them to ribbons. Limbs, torsos, asorted body parts and blank-eyed heads everywhere. Assassins, quite possibly in the mix. Flanking maneuvres that could wipe out your entire legion. Cavalry (they are pretty scary). I would have thought it was equal to worse in terms of enjoyment. Your right about deaths at the back of the line so to speak, the triarii were probably less likely to be killed than a hastatus. Your parked car exploding probably has a roman analogy of a hidden trap or camouflaged units in the darkness and cover of a grove of trees.

 

vtc

 

To some extent, as I mentioned, but modern warfare is so much more insidious and sudden

[Vibius Tiberius Costa]

To some extent, as I mentioned, but modern warfare is so much more insidious and sudden

 

Indeed, and there is quite often no clear winner or one decisive move like a flanking. I think the Vietnamese war is far worse than stumbling into a roman civil war.

 

vtc

[Pertinax]

Even so (and I do not argue the lethality of these situations) , killing distance/lethality of weaponry is much more truncated , battlefield dispersal hardly exists as a factor (indeed concentration of forces was sought after) and it is the latter which is the great unknown in stressing men.Men may face a certain (and deadly ) danger with greater fortitude than an amorphous unnerving miasma of uncertainty.

 

Not quite classical era , but the drift of the thing is evident.

[caldrail]

But thats necessary isn't it? With each modern sldier carrying the firepower of a platoon of 1815 soldiers in his hand, then he needs to remain as inconspicuous as possible.

 

in ancient warfare, you generally see the enemy coming (apart from deliberate ambushes that is). From a long way off too. Now its true that ancient armies had missile weapons - bows, javelins, stones etc - but a lot of these are slow moving and in any case you carry a shield that may well deflect them if you're quick or lucky. Caesar complains that his pila salvoes weren't having the effect he expected - the quick-witted gauls merely sidestepped them and threw them back (a clue that the bendy tip wasn't always effective)

 

Also, the big artillery of the day, the siege catapults, fired very slow moving missiles. At Jerusalem, the jews on the walls shouted "Here comes a baby!" when they spotted the bright white limestone boulders coming at them. Remember that missiles were often directed at the defenders or the internal structures, not the walls, particularly at Jerusalem where the walls were so strong that Titus despaired of getting in. In any event, the romans were forced to paint these rocks black so they were harder to spot. How do you spot an artillery shell? A guided bomb? A bullet? You can't. Whereas the ancient warrior was able to do something to further his survival the modern soldier instead must rely on better intel and communication to avoid getting hit.

 

The mass effect of men grouped together is a two-edged coin. On the one hand, waverers are bolstered by the knowledge that their mates are standing firm and there's safety in numbers. On the other hand, if too many turn and run the general feeling is that its over and we'd all better scarper! Thats been true of warfare since the beginning and still rears its head today even with modern dispersal. Thats why Caesar sometimes stood behind a line, pushing frightened men back into the thick of it, or sometimes inspired his men to courage by fighting alongside them. In fact, a close grouped nit is usually finished as a fighting force before you reach 30% casualties. Human survival instinct is very strong and unless there's some resolve or strong leadership, the unit will break under pressure. Thats why cavalry was so effective. By threatening the enemy they become less willing to stay around and get chopped down. On the other hand, in some circumstances morale is bolstered by situation, and there's been odd cases of last stands throughout military history.

[Pertinax]

Just to interject, "Here comes a baby!" .So they painted 'em black instead and started killing people seriously.

[caldrail]

Yes thats typically roman isn't it? One thing I must add to the discussion on mental health is the outburst of violence expected of legionaries, typically seen in successful siege assaults. Although the legions camped around the target often become bored and indifferent, once they get in the anger of their training and regime bubbles to the surface, and we see killing and looting that may not be encouraged by the roman leadership, but certainly isn't stopped. Its as if its the soldiers reward for their efforts, and the monetary gain is certainly of interest to the men. We have Josephus telling us that the value of gold halved in Syria after Jerusalem fell. Also, when the romas finally broke into that city, they began slaughtering the inhabitants regardless of age or sex. So many were killed that even the romans grew sick of it, and eventually decided to take the survivors as prisoners. Many were sent to Egypt as slave labour, the remainder distributed to the provinces for the arena.

[Northern Neil]

Often I read or hear anecdotes of figures such as Senators, polititians and businessmen taking poison. Maybe the 'stress related illnesses' associated with modern life were evident back then, in some quarters?

[Nephele]

My real question is that serious mental health problems such as autism, Hutchinson Disease, MS, Psychotic people such as schizophrenia - how the ROmans used to deal with such people - did they have Mental institutions? I doubt.

 

My favorite old book on ancient Roman society, W.S. Davis' A Day in Old Rome, states that there was a ready supply of physicians willing to "put the patient out of his misery -- with results deliberately murderous."

 

So... I wonder to what extent euthanasia might have been practiced on barely functional, mentally ill family members in those Roman households where the embarrassment of having such a family member exceeded the burden of caring for such a member?

 

-- Nephele

[Kosmo]

War was brutal then, twisting a gladius in someone's stomach will cause a lot of pain and a slow death, a good example what will happen if the ugly foe will put that spear into you and is brutal today with air attacks and mortar fire, but I think that today's war it's more stressfull because of the lenght of time someone is in danger.

You march for a couple of weeks then the battle lasts several hours and that is often the end of it. Maybe another battle over other 2 weeks then you go home or camp for winter.

At Stalingrad you were in battle, more or less intense, day and night, in snow and sun for 6 months. No time to recover.

Maybe the upbringing in the country was also an added advantage. You cut animals since young so you get used with the blood.

Maybe, selfdefence it's better felt when you kill someone that tries to kill you in a direct manner.

Still I don't think that all romans were killing machines.

 

Some of the early monks were living as crazy people on the streets of the cities of the already christian Empire. They behaved like crazy for choice, to express their devotion. So, we might conclude that also were other real mentally ill people living on the streets.

[caldrail]

Often I read or hear anecdotes of figures such as Senators, polititians and businessmen taking poison. Maybe the 'stress related illnesses' associated with modern life were evident back then, in some quarters?

 

Hey NN, good to see you around!

 

Actually, the impression I get is that most of these suicides were of an honourable variety rather than wanting to end it all. There are cases of people killing themselves merely for being accused of scandal rather than being found guilty in court. Societies with organised and ritualised family lifestyles sometimes show these tendencies. Shame, or the fear of humiliation, are sometimes strong motives for suicidal behaviour.