Khazars.

[Gaius Octavius]

Who were the Khazars? I believe that they were converted to Judaism after a debate before their leader by a Christian and a Jew. Are they still extant?

[Northern Neil]

Who were the Khazars? I believe that they were converted to Judaism after a debate before their leader by a Christian and a Jew. Are they still extant?

The Khazars were originally a Turkic people living on the River Volga who did indeed convert to Judaism round about the tenth century. There are theories that Jews of Eastern European origin were/are so numerous in that part of the world as a direct result of this. So I suppose, in one sense they are still extant. I think there are quite a few Jewish folks on this forum - maybe they can shed more light on this?

[Nephele]

Last time I checked, I didn't seem to have any Khazars in the family tree. But perhaps this will help.

 

The conversion story you're thinking of, G.O., was related by the great Jewish poet Rabbi Yehudah HaLevi in the 12th century, in his work titled Kuzari. The story goes that the king of the Khazars had a dream that god was not pleased with the way he was conducting his life. And so, to find out how he should live, he called for leaders of various belief systems (not just Judaism and Christianity, but also Islam and Greek philosophy) to give their accounting of "the truth" before the king. The only one who impressed and ultimately convinced the king, was the Jewish rabbi speaking of the Jewish tenets of faith, and thus Judaism won out.

 

-- Nephele

[Rameses the Great]

Turks? I thought there were from the Caucasus.

[Gaius Octavius]

I thought that in order to be a Jew, (especially in those days), one has/had to be born of a Jewish mother.?

Edited January 10, 2008 by Gaius Octavius

[Northern Neil]

Turks? I thought there were from the Caucasus.

The term 'Turkic' means belonging to the language group which the Turks do - the Altaic / central asian language group. it does not mean these people were Turks in the modern sense. In the same way, the English, Dutch, Swedes can be said to be 'Germanic' but not actually German.

[Nephele]

I thought that in order to be a Jew, (especially in those days), one has/had to be born of a Jewish mother.?

 

Being born of a Jewish mother automatically makes one a Jew, but there have also always been converts to Judaism throughout history.

 

-- Nephele

[Kosmo]

Many khazars were jews incuding the most important kings, but some were also christians or muslims. Some say that they converted to judaism in order to avoid taking sides in the arab-byzantine conflicts. Still they fought many wars mostly against muslims.

It is presumed that after Sviatoslav, the cnieaz of Rus, destroyed the chazars many of the jews migrated West and setlled in Europe. I doubt it. Eastern and Central Europe were not places at the time for nonviolent migrations.

[Gaius Octavius]

Didn't the Loebs and the Kuhns aid the Russians financially during the Russo-Japanese War in exchange for a 'Jewish' province? Was this province then declared a 'Republic' by the Soviets? Did this have anything to do with the Khazars?

Edited January 11, 2008 by Gaius Octavius

[Ingsoc]

Didn't the Loebs and the Kuhns aid the Russians financially during the Russo-Japanese War in exchange for a 'Jewish' province? Was this province then declared a 'Republic' by the Soviets? Did this have anything to do with the Khazars?

 

I think you mean to the "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" who was founded in the far east by the Communist in 1928 in order to fight Zionist movement and offer a Soviet alternative to Israel, the plan failed in the end and in it's highest the Jews consist only 5% of the general population. strangly this oblast still exist to this day.

[Julius Ratus]

When Vladimir tried to find a new religion for his people, the Khazars were one of the groups he looked to. The whole circumcision thing, and no pork, turned him off.

[Kosmo]

When Vladimir tried to find a new religion for his people, the Khazars were one of the groups he looked to. The whole circumcision thing, and no pork, turned him off.

 

First of all the no wine rule was what he disliked.

[Gaius Octavius]

First of all the no wine rule was what he disliked.

 

Jews are precluded from drinking wine? Lot? Cana?

[Julius Ratus]

When Vladimir tried to find a new religion for his people, the Khazars were one of the groups he looked to. The whole circumcision thing, and no pork, turned him off.

 

First of all the no wine rule was what he disliked.

 

The no wine rule kept him from converting to Islam (the Bulgars were Islamic and sent emmisaries to him). Jews are allowed to drink. There are some Kosher wine companies (Manneschevitz and Mogen David are two. Both wines are cheap, taste ok, and give you a wicked hangover).