Cohort Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 (edited) as a relatively new member of this forum, I am sure this has been discussed before I did a search re" Varian Edited August 27, 2006 by Cohort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 The truth of the matter is, Germania beyond the tribes that immediately bordered the empire were not worth conquering or assimilating. They had a level of technology barely sufficient to scratch the soil and feed themselves in their little hovels. This made them unattractive as conquered subjects or clients. The Varus disaster was more a psychological shock than a strategic disaster. Had the Gothic incursions not crowded them altogether into supertribes, the Germans could never have overthrown the Western empire. Since no one could have forseen the Gothic invasions, we can't fault the early emperors for not dealing with the situation more aggressively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochus of Seleucia Posted August 28, 2006 Report Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) To add to what Ursus said, it was more psychological because at the time I believe there were 25 legions. A considerable loss but not empire-threatening. He raised two more but it was a very unpopular move. Ursus, you're probably right, but didn't the huns initially push many of the tribes together and towards Roman boundaries? Edited August 28, 2006 by Antiochus of Seleucia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Recent archaeology has uncovered roman settlements much further into germany than previously thought. The principate was well on the way to colonising the near germanic regions and they certainly wouldn't have bothered unless they thought it worthwile. Whilst the resources from these regions probably weren't lucrative, it was definitely worth building a friendly buffer zone against the wilder barbarians. We know from the activities of german knights in later centuries that as they went deeper into the forest the natives got nastier. Varus was told to collect taxes from the newly colonised region. Augustus sent him because he'd married into the royal family and a lawyer wasn't going to get the respect without some military service. It was only the machinations of Arminius that turned things over. Varus has been decribed as 'a judge, but not a judge of men'. I agree with that. He was keen to quash a rebellion before augustus got annoyed and fell into the trap laid by arminius with almost careless haste. The varian disaster changed roman foreign policy forever and remains a defining moment in roman history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotWotius Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Recent archaeology has uncovered roman settlements much further into germany than previously thought. The principate was well on the way to colonising the near germanic regions and they certainly wouldn't have bothered unless they thought it worthwile. Whilst the resources from these regions probably weren't lucrative, it was definitely worth building a friendly buffer zone against the wilder barbarians. We know from the activities of german knights in later centuries that as they went deeper into the forest the natives got nastier. Varus was told to collect taxes from the newly colonised region. Augustus sent him because he'd married into the royal family and a lawyer wasn't going to get the respect without some military service. It was only the machinations of Arminius that turned things over. Varus has been decribed as 'a judge, but not a judge of men'. I agree with that. He was keen to quash a rebellion before augustus got annoyed and fell into the trap laid by arminius with almost careless haste. The varian disaster changed roman foreign policy forever and remains a defining moment in roman history. Maybe the fact that Varus--lawyer and clearly a man non-military integrity--was appointed as a governor of a frontline province, indicates that in the eyes of Augustus, the province at this time was pacified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldrail Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 Oh yes - Augustus thought the region was safe enough for Varus to earn his spurs as a military man in relative safety. Strictly speaking it was - settlements were expanding, revenues were starting to come back, and the germans seemed willing after all to accept roman ways. However, it was Arminius who upset those plans. He rallied german resentment against Rome and had the cheek to tell Varus that a rebellion was in progress personally. It was a well laid trap. However ambitious Arminius may have been, his plan to rule Germania as king fell apart within ten years and he got himself assassinated. I wonder if roman money was behind that, or was it just envy from a rival? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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