P.Clodius
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Posts posted by P.Clodius
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...or, he wasn't involved in the slightest!
You don't think Caesar was involved in the trial of Caius Rabirius? Not surprising--it's only attested to by all our sources.
...no, in the Catiline conspiracy. Take cover, there's sniping in the trenches!
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...or, he wasn't involved in the slightest!
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How historically accurate are Polybius' and Livy's accounts of the Punic Wars?
As accurate as any primary source.
So there is no bias on the part of Polybius and Livy against the Carthaginians which would make them alter what really happened in their histories?
Of course there was bias. Polybius was part of the Scipionic circle, and Livy was a roman. Having said that they are still both VERY good, and, widely available via the internet so start googling....!
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Wasn't the movie 300 based on such? If so it wasn't half bad.
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...the likes of Cato and Cicero, two of the most respected thinkers of their time...
'Respected' post mortum, in life as much victims of fickle politics as anyone else. Cato was an extremist whose predictable and constant obstinacy contributed to the fall of the Republic more than most.
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HERE. Nice vivid colors too.
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Hirtius and Pansa were loyal Caesarians....
That's my point. Antony was a loyal Caesarian as well....
Well you are both right to an extent. Hirtius and Pansa were moderate Caesarians who would probably have advocated a 'return' to the status quo of pre-civil war politics while seeking to implement some of the more widely acceptable policies of Caesar. Antony didn't appear to have much of a vision beyond his own dignitas initially, and sought to maintain it via the Gallic legions. He had, on the face of it, appeared to try to find common ground with some of the Parricides and would therefore been at loggerheads with Octavian over this issue, who, as Caesar's adopted son was duty bound to seek revenge, thus making him a radical Caesarian because of the obligation he would owe the army that would enable him to pursue his policy. I believe all the Parricides were dead within three years of the Ides of March.
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All or nearly all of his acts were overturned, but there wasn't one formal body that reviewed acts as being constitutional--adherence to precedence was the responsibility of every magistrate.
So I'm clear on this then, Sulla was still considered afterwards to have been the legal Dictator of Rome? (no matter how repulsive his reign may have been)
In short, yes.
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Cato's participation in this is interesting and is certainly worth researching more. Caesar's participation and motives for such are obvious though. But to answer GMan's question, while it may not have been legal or prudent to attack Sulla, dead or not, it was an accepted practice to attack those who were part of the 'gang' so to speak. Look what happened to the Scipionic circle. Indeed, Cicero's first case devolved into a brave condemnation, however indirectly of the Sullan regime via his accusation and ridicule of Crysogenus (sp).
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Wasn't sure where to put this, so I put it here!
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Ultimately that's your call as it's your sweat! If you do go that route it could develop into a lengthy document, though, it would be nice to see such with ALL politically motivated prosecutions, outcomes, etc, with a brief description of each. Needless to say whatever you go with will add to the already rich content of UNRV.
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A Who's Who for these two putsches could be useful, but it's a daunting project to say the least.
It could be broken down a little further. A list of victims of political murder, motives, means, and perps...
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Salve, Amici.
By the way this episode is written ("It was thought by some that his death.../quasi ab incerto..."), I think we are dealing with some historic gossip, analogous to that suetonian story of the purported electoral bribery of Cato Minor (Divus Iulius, Cp. XIX, sec. I).
Suetonius says nothing about Cato being bribed.
That's right, we have previously established his angelic status here!. Cato was neither a bribee or a briber, cmon ASCLEPIADES, haven't you learned the art of cherry picking yet?
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Is what this guy says true or a gross over-simplification?
"America is paying the price for an economy based not on production, but on speculation and usury. The rich are enriched still further, the poor, the working class and even parts of the middle class are gradually being enslaved by debt."
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...not being knowledgeable on such subjects, is the general doom and gloom justified by these people? Ignore the obvious rants!
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Excellent link MPC, thanks...!
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[... but sheer iconoclasm for the sake of it seems to be beyond all reason.....
Seconded...Please stop!
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Octavian himself was too busy hiding in a swamp...
Ever been in harms way? No one knows how they will react until tested...Here's one of Sherman's quotes, after he and Grant had been given a taste of southern 'hospitality'. "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" After a puff of his cigar, Grant replied calmly: "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though." Were Grant and Sherman cowards for not 'fighting to the last man'? Those who are quick to condemn are those who sit in front of the TV and Monday morning quarterback the Iraq war!
To me, Octaivan's swamp-mucking at Philippi is emblematic of his whole military career.Who won!
Even as a thug, he was simply a cowardly, short-sighted opportunist, with his successes almost entirely confined to his use of force against the unarmedOh my, another dogma induced tirade!
That he outlasted his competitors by this disgusting technique is true--but in a civil war, SOMEBODY has to be the last person standing. I take this is to be an achievement of rather dubious quality.So Grant and Sherman's achievements were 'of rather dubious quality' I take it?
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We need a Clodia, I'm feeling horny!
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I would have barricaded myself in the Temple of Jupiter, and issued orders to my 'friends' to arrange things according to my outlook. Occasionally I would visit the Rostra and have the crowd chant to the rhythm of my toga tugs. Also, I would prosecute any who tried to emulate me!
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Salve, Amici.
I think any post or topic that may personally offend another UNRV member, even if inadvertently, should be explicitly avoided.
Vale.
Count me out, I like to be offended...But beware, I fire back!
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But why do you say empiricism is impossible, Publius?
Because we only get glimpses and we don't see the total. Tacitus, Caesar, Cicero, et al, along with archeology, provide only a peek of the whole that make up any society. As we know these tend to be subjective as there were no 'professional' historians back then, and no schools to study such. Hence absolute definition is not possible, only interpretations. Make sense?
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Thanks inimicus, and there it was on my own doorstep. I often forget that we have rich content on the site, choosing instead to head right for the forums! It's interesting that Ambitus was an attack on Catiline.
Trial of Caius Rabirius
in Res Publica
Posted
Wow...the thread was deleted? Why? This is a first I think to occur to an MPC hijacked thread, correct me if I'm wrong someone. Well, is this a new tone of UNRV that I am unaware of, censorship? To MPC, I know for a fact that you are capable of better, your post was nothing less than fanatical and hackneyed in its tone. Please lets get back to to-ing and fro-ing as usual and leave the inflammatory rhetoric behind. To Alibegoa, don't leave because of this misunderstanding, you'd be missing out and so would we me thinks!