Faustus
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The fire place would be behind the (east side) man's caldarium or tepidarium.
I am going to Pompeii this summer myself to take a look at the system.
These seem to be "auxiliary" heat sources for both areas, possibly because they needed some help to be more comfortable? I notice your floor plan is clearer in that particular area than the one in the Nappo book mentioned.
With your help I have located the two fireplaces; The
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There is some indciation of how the system worked and where the water came from as well as the
fascinating news that Scipio seemed to bathe in the dark!
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Imagine that! Looking at most baths, for instance the Stabian baths in Pompeii seem to be poorly lighted, at least from outside openings. I suppose very little took place there after daylight hours, but in a villa that situation would be open for personal choice. A skylight might provide enough light on a night with a full moon. The Stabian bath did have a skylight in the vault of the Caldarum, and from the mention ("sky-light") I took that to mean a glazed opening. Its use included the ability to open it and it would have acted as a "temperature regulation valve" when the room became too hot.
Klingan, thanks for mentioning the Stabian Baths. I found a copy of POMPEII ~ A Guide to the Ancient City by Salvatore Nappo on my bookshelf. It has some beautiful artistic reconstructions of the baths. Do you have that? Either way I have a question to ask about the location of the secondary fireplaces you mentioned. I have a floor plan and a legend of the baths I can send, to ask some questions off forum.
Faustus
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Just out of interest, How big a problem was rainfall in ancient Rome?
I know the Mediterranean is usually a dry, warm climate in the summer months but what about the winter months, was rain a regular occurrence back then or not.
From F&Wagnall: (Italy; Climate) "Italy has both continental and coastal climates. The southern parts of the peninsula closely resemble that of coastal Spain. Heaviest precipitation occurs in Italy during the fall and winter months, when westerly winds prevail. The lowest mean annual rainfall, 18 in., occurs in the Apulian province of Foggia in the south; the highest, 60 in., occurs in the Venetian province of Udine in the N.E."
On the west coast of Italy the closest U.S. comparison would be the west coast around San Diego: dry warm moderated summers with sunny wetter winters.
In contrast the climate of the Lombardy plain is continental; warm summers and severe winters, with temperatures as low as 5 deg.F. prevail in this region. .
Is there any statistics or sources mentioning rainfall in ancient Rome?In Climate Through the Ages C.E.P.BROOKS outlined the climate in the general European climate as follows for the periods given:
B.C. ~ 700-500 - dry and warm; 500 B.C. - sudden increase of rainfall, much cooler, beginning of Sub-Atlantic
A.D. ~ 0
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Outlining a map of the Roman Empire of 117 AD under Trajan, including all the smaller seas where a Roman boundary would fall in a straight line across or include them, and connecting the furthest extent of the Empire at those locations as if they would be under direct control of Rome, I came up with 3,347,435 square miles. Adding in 50,000 for England and Wales (which had some confusing variations), we have 3,397,435. Of course neither the accuracy of my measurements nor my map merit the precision my figures would seem to suggest. This was all done with tracing paper by calculating the number of quarter inch squares falling inside the outline with a known area in square miles for each 1/4" square.
I'll be interested in learning the actual figure. I used a the distance from Lisbon to Rome (1164 miles) and Rome to Istanbul (850 miles) to set up a scale because that line traversed the central parts of the Empire and gave me a fairly long base line of about 2014 miles. On my map the distance fell within about 1 mile out of 2000 east to west. Maybe my calculations will inspire someone else to come up with a better figure. Good luck.
Faustus
Edit: FYI
without Alaska the US land area is 5 pct smaller
And with Alaska the us land area is 11 pct larger
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Here's a couple of pictures I came across from Herculaneum.
Thanks GPM for that information. I didn
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Aristotle's observation, "A swallow does not make a spring," seems relevant here. Just change that to, "One swallow's clear liver doesn't make a clear spring."
What I'd like to know (in connection with Faustus' premise here) is: Why would we assume that these sacrificial animals came from the wild? Wasn't domesticated livestock mostly used for the purpose?
-- Nephele
Yes. Oxen, rams, chicken, pigs. Even occasionally dogs.
Ursus - I notice you did not mention pheasants and rabbits
MPC - Quite right
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An interesting exercise, sometimes valuable for the revealing of candidates "grassroots" popularity, is to take a look at the donations they
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This is interesting. It seems these gutters and leaders are what make the opening (compluvium), and the efficient flow of the storm-water into the impluvium a practical matter. And for the rainwater not picked up by the roof, there are floor drains for the un-captured excess rainwater. It always ends up that the Romans didn't accept a lot of compromise in their practical physical world.
Faustus
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I find it impossible to believe that the instances of sacrificed animals discovered to have had no heart within them (a sure potent of evil among the Romans) were, in fact, genuine and not manufactured.
-- Nephele
Thanks Nephele,
I don't think one rules out the other. And the difference between what my post described and what you describe may be found in the word
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We tend to think of the ancients as backward, superstitious peoples accepting whatever their priests told them. We also tend to be cynical about the more educated folk who seemed to take advantage of the "ignorant" lesser folk.
A Roman priest examined the guts of a bird and gave some sort of opinion about the future.
But in some cases this method had real merit. When founding a new city, a priest would go the site were the new city was to he located and in a ceremony, examine the livers of a rabbit and a pheasant from the area where the city would be built. This was done to find out if it would be a healthy place in which to live. When the animals were found to be without fault and an investigation of the land turned up no stagnant pools, the
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I would be very grateful to receive ideas about drainpipes and gutters; none of my reconstruction material seems to show them, and I can only find a few scattered sources.
Salve NN
This from: CITY (A story of Roman Planning and Construction - David Macaulay) The below situation was described in his book for an imaginary new town named "Verbonia". (I summarize - )
All buildings in the city were required to have covered arcades or roof features of some kind (awning types for instance) which dropped storm-water onto the street. Pedestrians were for the most part covered against rain and sunlight, except when they crossed streets. The sidewalks under the "awnings" or arcades were raised above the street level about one and a half foot, and once the storm water was in the street it flowed into the cloaca at various horizontal inlets. The streets were the gutters. There were raised stepping stones on which to cross the streets, which were spaced so as to allow carts to pass through at a cautious speed. There were no doubt "unimproved sections", or places where there were some commercial buildings that weren't so well protected, but in all new construction this was mandated.
Faustus
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Good answers P. P. Having read all your links, I think what they didn
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It became a link automatically!
I suppose that means I have learned!
If that doesn't work try: THIS
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If one of his mates had predicted such an exciting future for him he would have been quite sceptical.
Or barring some failure of procreation or accident of immigration some of the people who visited the
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Did anyone else see this hardhitting report?
Tens of thousands of people living in a rubbish dump with pigs and giant rats and sanitation related disease!
Some wealthy enough to live in much nicer area's but choosing to risk rat bites and disease rather than the prejudice of Muslim Egyptians.
A surprise, but not a shock. Thanks for bringing it up. Do you have a link?
Faustus
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What I meant by hot/cold it that I've hear that there would be hints in text about people burning them self on the walls or water and that complained about how cold the caldarium water was.
I think you might find a reference by Seneca to being "parboiled" in a bath, in Letter 86 of Seneca's letters to Lucilius. But I can't locate an online translation. And perhaps Seneca might have been exaggerating, as he took a dim view of the luxury of baths, being a stoic as he was.
-- Nephele
To depart from the sources you asked for Klingan, here's further input:
An experienced "furnace operator" would develop the necessary skills to meet the comfort needs of the users of the bath. The variables to be taken into account regarding controlling the heat of the floor in the cauldarium and that of the water in the plunge bath would be the operator
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The Decimation
How often did it occur?
Wouldn
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There are never easy solutions
"2 studies conclude that biofuels are not so green after all"
The use of cropland to produce sources of energy also has some unforeseen consequences in "economies" as well as the "environment"; consequences which shouldn
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a deeper question for scholars: Can archaeology prove mythology?
It would logically seem the answer is no. But it can help get to mythology
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Sorry I can't be more brief, but here goes:
After walking out on
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I did see them mentioned here, but I'll just re-affirm the likelihood of the old reliable "feather-bed mattress". If they could find enough birds to actually treat bird
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Blue? Black?
Faustus
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Interesting post Faustus. I cannot add very much to this, your architectural and masoning skills are obviously far greater then mine.
However do you have a picture of the bigger picture? It would probably give us clues to this walls fate, at least the very right and left side.
Do you have a picture in larger resolution available?
Salve Klingan,
Your second question first: I downloaded this back in Nov 07, and have searched for it since. My "history" function for that time has expired, but still I search. . .
To your second question: doing this should give you much greater resolution and size;
You should have a "set-point" for "System Restore" with your current display of shortcuts, etc.
If not set or find one in the recent past. (?System Restore? see note at bottom)
then delete all your icons on your screen except keep some around the edges
locate where you downloaded your current screen back-ground so that you can put up again later
then right click on the image in the post "Constructing Rome's . . ."
finally (left) click on "set as background" in the "dialogue box"
and minimize everything that is up on your screen at that time.
You should then have a full screen high resolution image of the arch.
To get all your icons set again as they originally were on your screen just manually put them back up or do an
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*Note of the translator: you might remember this name from my thread on the Baths of Capo di Bove. Thread here.
Thanks much Silentium; and for providing the link to the Baths of Capo di Bove thread. I remember that from before, when you put it up the first time. I had wandered across your posting and that aerial view of the baths during one of my late night searches for postings that had gotten four or less replies. At the time I saw it in September, and I put it up as background on my monitor screen (I keep a pretty clear screen).
It was amazing to look at in that way. If any one does do that, (and I recommend it) notice the fracture line that enters from the middle left and traverses the floor passing through the path of least resistance until it exits the structure top right. The view was worth spending some time poring over.
At the time I spent some time searching for it
Roman law!
in Imperium Romanorum
Posted · Edited by Faustus
Will Durant gives numerous references to Roman law during the Republic, and Empire in his great The Story of Civilization ~ Caesar and Christ (CaC)
He is both elegant and eloquent in his description of the meaning of Roman law for its times and its future role in history to come, as we might expect from a philosopher and a historian.
Caesar and Christ at Amazon.Com: click HERE
Click here for a REVIEW of CaC
From his remarks it appears the reviewer of CaC would prefer a more narrative historical accounting. But Durant