21th century Roman

I think the Romans would be amazed that it has been over 2500 years since the Republic was founded and after all these many centuries the battle for the perfect Republic still rages on. They would be saddened that in Italy itself, there still is no working Republic . The people have not learned how to govern any better than their early attempts. And an ...I told you so !... that the return of the Christ and his peace on earth was a fanthom idealism, one that still has not come any closer to realization today than what was so proudly proclaimed in Rome 2000 years ago. Amazed at just how little has actually changed in the ordinary lives of humankind. Modern tools do not make for a better man. I do like you're reasoning that all those who study Rome today are a Roman. But in my view being a Roman is best lived as a Republican idea, not any other. Democracy is Greek. For myself also. the republican period was the struggle to create, and in that creation is found the the true meaning of Rome or any country. Its early history had heroes, its later history had few heroes and more villains. Funny how history repeats its self. Every modern nation seem to have the same story. In the beginning when needs are the greatest, unselfish men step forward to do great things and are remembered. As time passes virtues like self sacrifice, honor and duty are replaced by less than honorable characteristics, power, greed and ambition. If this is human nature, we will go the way of the Romans in time. Other line from gladiator that I did like was the soldier's salute, "strength and honor", that seem to characterize, at least by my view of the republican period. Ron

That will all depend om IF we are on the verge of change. It's easy to see a pattern after the events. If we're not on the verge, the event will most likely fall into the mists of time. That is a fair point, of course. However, in, say, 375 it certainly would not have done any harm to have listened to the profits of doom, just as it wouldn't do any real harm today. The benefits, then as now, would far outweigh the minor disruptions needed to address these concerns. Very much true. As there may or may not be reason to fear global warming, there is no argument against trying to protect our environment. I seem to have struck a chord with the environmentalist. My intent was to pick subjects that would have been foreign to Roman thinking, "modern issues." Again the question, how would the Romans see us today? From your studies of Roman culture what would their perspective of us be? Put yourself into their mind frame and look at our world. What would stand out to them and why? As far as the environment going, yes we have serious concerns that we with our technology makes us more aware of. Would the Romans marvel at our transport systems? Would they be awed by our space stations, systems of public education? Would they consider our medical fields as advanced or backward? What would amaze them or utterly confuse them?

This line from gladiator, (a movie I ended up disliking, not just for the metal spoons the slaves ate with) bring to mind, just how different do you believe modern people are? "Rome was an idea," Aurelius said in the movie. Are we so lacking faith in ourselves not to understand that the past holds but examples of what we can accomplish today. You who study Rome, are Romans, because you have bought into the idea and ideals of what Rome was. We today are no different in basic character then those of thousands of years ago. Wasn't Rome an attitude that spread to the provinces. Didn't the Romanized provinces consider themselves Roman. Not all of them I grant you. After a few hundred years, didn't the Britons or Gaul consider themselves Roman Britons or Roman Gauls. In the end they all became Roman citizens. The first truly cosmopolitan nation with shared interests. History is the inspiration for the future, its possibilities and its hopes. Rome continues today in those that believe so and understand its legacy. From its earliest days there was no other direction for them but avanti, forward. To stand still was to die. They actually had to live by "carpe diem" or perish. Are we any different? Isn't it necessary for us also to go out and conquer each day in our own lives? We look back into their lives. I wonder what they would think if they looked into our lives and discussed us. What do you think they would say? How would they view political correctness? What would they think of people out to save trees? Could they understand groups like Greenpeace? Are you up for a little cultural role reversal? You are looking into the future 2000 years hence, as Romans. What would be your observations on the world of today? Ron

Yes, Republican Roman Army 200-104BC page 21ff, evidently the source reference for this is Livy (26.4.4) Seems logical enough, not that modern logic has much to do with Ancient Thinking. I have also read the same. while it might or might not have been standard practice is any one's guess. Commanders had to devise situations according to conditions of the moment. They most likely vary from situation to situation as the commanders saw fit throughout Rome's long history. The one certain thing about history is the amount of uncertainty from bits and pieces that remain. But than again if we had all of the records of the past, there would be no need for groups like this to discuss the little available knowledge and the vast amount of questions that exist. 21th cen Roman

I disagree, have you ever wielded a sword from horseback? I have. The height advantage with stirrups enables the rider to bring his sword down on top of the enemy, over his shield. I spent two years on a horse riding across the American Continent (see profile) and have had horses for many years. When I mention the example of siting in a chair or standing, I wasn't implying as to the weight of the sword, but to the effectiveness of the blow from above. Of course my opinion about stirrups is from my own personal experiences. I have also done a lot of bareback riding and as I said Its only my opinion based on my experiences. I didn't get that out of a book. Do you by any chance come from England? German, Gauls and Brits, didn't fight in close formations, but charged in unorganized masses, as I've read. The Romans also beat the Greeks with their phalanx and sixteen or twenty foot spear (I've forgotten the length). In these battles cavalry was also used to harass the unprotected flanks and rear, if possible. The heavy horse was not only to carry more weight, but to run down more people on foot. Once the enemy had spent their spears, they were left with sword and shield. No problem for a horse to penetrate. War horses were trained to not stop. that I believe was the purpose of training with hurtles The Romans found heavier horses in northern Gaul and Belgium, where they were being bred, or so I've read. But then I've been wrong before, how about you? As far as the average height of Romans 5'6' was the most common height in my reading. I gave them the extra inch, for the benefit of the doubt. I have always been impressed by the amount of roman studies and reenactment groups in the UK. There might be as much in France or Germany, but since I either speak or read those languages and American and English are almost similar, joking, I find the English sites very well informed. Thank you for the opportunity of this discussion. I always enjoy different points of view. Please do respond if you would like to carry this discussion further. On another note, could you tell me what goes in the signature space? I am still fumbling my way through this wonderful site. My name is Renato, Renatus in latin, here in the States people simply call me Ron.

Thank you for your welcome. Yes, 21th century Roman is a bit long, but I suppose that that is what I am. My latin name would be Renatus, but 21 will do just as well. See you in the formum.

Greetings, Rome has always held a fascination for me, because I was born there, but raised in the USA. I enjoy reading history and am always trying to gather a clearer understanding of the forces that shaped peoples' lives in the past. Were they so different than us, I don't believe they were. I believe we have the same opportunities to shape our destinies as they did. The question for today is; do we have the will? Happy to join such an active group and looking forward to some interesting topics.