[Religion and tolerance in Rome]

What religion had the people that created tolerance, science, secularism and human rights?

Where they Pagans, Buddhists or Muslims?

 

They were assuredly pagans, and almost all Greeks. Did you really think that Christians invented science? Archimedes would be shocked. And the invention of secularism? As far as we can tell, it's Thales, though secularism spread like wildfire among the philosophers in Athens. Tolerance? Long before Jesus was throwing hissy-fits against money-changers, Stoics taught that reason--the birthright of all humans--was what made men free, happy, and gave them their rights.

 

I think Europe is being focussed on too much. tolerance, science, secularism and human rights definitely existed in India in 6th century B.C ( I don't presume to say the whole of India abided by them). I 'll leave the Muslims out because Islam developed even later than Christianity and the pagans have already been dealt with. That leaves Buddhism: Tolerence is a fundamental in it ( but then again don't all religions preach it?). It's proscience ( or at least Einstein thinks so.) It preaches human rights condenming the cast system and the treatment of women in Ancient India . But I'm not trying to make a case for any religion. How can tolerance, science, secularism and human rights be created? Don't they exist any way? Dont they simply have to be cultivated and practiced?

[Welcome and Introduce Yourself Here]

It happened the same to me, LOL.

 

Thanks! sorry but which was the same experience loving the site or being stuck for resources?

[Welcome and Introduce Yourself Here]

I guess this is where i should have come first but idiot me just jumped into the discussions which by the way are pretty interesting. I descovered the site while researching on the Grachchi about 8 months back but found the forum only a week ago! Amazing site. It's really useful because upto-date information on either Ancient Greece or Rome is more or less non existent in my part of the world.

[The Corruption in the late Republic]

Maybe this was part of the 'system' anyway - could it be that favours were given such as governorship of a province, whereby the benefactor not only lined his own pockets, but was expected to from the outset? Was Spain not governed like this in republican times?

 

 

Lining their pokets is one thing but bleeding the province dry or acting like "Tarquin"was simply asking for trouble and thats what governers like Galba did. The treacherous massacre of the Lucitanians by him in his capacity as governer of Spain was a smear on Roman ideals of trust and honour. Small wonder that Cato denounced Galba!

[The Corruption in the late Republic]

"It's actually an important point, as the leaders of the early republic lust after power as well (see for example the Patricians-Plebs struggle) why doesn't the Romans of the late republic could reach compromise without bloodshed like there ancestors?"

 

 

I see several possible answers. At this point it was mainly a case of individuals vying for power. Therefore cessation which was the plebs' weapon would not have worked out. An individual walking out would simply be voluntary exile. Rome had enough militia to afford the threat of even a group of the populance walking out. Plus, The usage to which the tribunes' veto power was put made it impossible to get a political solution legally. And as Marius' army reforms had made private armies possible and in such circumstances violence was the best way to gain power.

[Jugurtha]

I could understand how Senators would take bribes, but from a potential enemy of the state? That's sort of... unscrupulous.

 

Taking bribes was unscrupulous, but let's not overlook the fact that, with or without bribes, non-Roman heads of state (i.e., client kings) typically had patrons in Rome.

 

 

Plus in Jugurtha's case he was connected to the Scipionic family having served under Scipio in the spanish Numantine war. With such high connections and natural cunning bribing wouldn't have been hard. Jugurtha is also to have said of Rome "Oh city you would sell ourelf if only you could find a buyer" Infact bribery seems to have been a peice of cake!

[The Corruption in the late Republic]

I would say corrupted by power not luxuries.

 

Agreed! It was definitely increasing greed for power that caused political corruption, civil wars and ultimately toppled the republic. Unless you consider "power" a luxury, luxurious living can't be considered the sole or main cause of the republic's corruption. And I don't think that Marius, Sulla, or any member of either triumvirate who made a grab for power considered it a luxury (Spartacus might have though)

[Worst Roman Enemy and why?]

Here is one for you guys. I was looking over some of my new textbooks for my masters' degree in Classical Studies. The thought came to me. Which Roman enemy was the worst? Which one do you guys think was the worst and why? I thought the Germans at first, but when looking at the Gauls, it is easy to see them as the worst. In my opinion, they were the worst because they were around the longest.

 

Definitely Carthage. Not just Archimedes' amazing and original technology and the long drawn out war. For me the though Carthage was ultimately reduced the longterm socio-economic problems that occured as a result of or were aggravated by Hannibals 15 years in Italy were the most severe blow to Romes stability. Thanks to the Hannibalic war much of the countryside and farms were destroyed. prolonged military service lead to neglect of agriculture. The end of the war was marked by rural depopulation, over crowding of Rome which in turn lead to the formation of the idle rabble that lived off selling votes. Giving up small farms ravaged by war lead to the increase of 'lati fundia' These were evils that Rome was saddled with for right till the fall of the republic and attempts at correction lead to violence. Hannibal died and Carthage fell but their legacy to Rome lasted much longer

[Can Anyone Tell Me About The 1st Triumvirate?]

Who sanctioned the Triumvirate? Did the three just meet somewhere and decide this? Did they march into the senate and said, this is the way it is going to be and that is it?

Thanks for the info, I have been thinking about the triumvirate for the last couple of days.

 

The 1st triumvirate started off as a private agreement without any sanction. It was a secret alliance at first unlike it's successor the 2nd triumvirate and came to light only later when the members had to gain approval for passing laws concerning settling Pompey's veteran's.

[Your Hidden Roman Name]

Since I've been doing these Hidden Roman Names here for some time, I figured it's time to update this posting, and provide a new scrambling tool.

 

What I do here is find your "hidden" Roman name in your own name through the art of anagram or blanagram. A blanagram is like an anagram, except that one letter has been exchanged for another.

 

In my Hidden Roman Names blanagrams, I may exchange more than one letter, because a masculine ancient Roman name will generally require the letters "i", "u", and "s". A feminine ancient Roman name will generally require the letters "i" and "a".

 

All you need to do is provide me with a scramble of your name (and let me know whether you are male or female). I ask you to scramble your name for privacy. Here is a scrambling tool if you need help:

 

Scramble Me! (don't leave spaces between your first, middle, and last names as your type them out)

 

If your name scramble is too long to work with, I may ask you to remove a middle name. Or, to save time, you may provide me with both a scramble of your first/middle/last name and just your first/last name. Don't forget to let me know whether you are male or female!

 

Your resulting Roman name will be uniquely your own, as it will be created from the rearranged letters of your existing name. You may even receive your ancient Roman "family history", to go with your new name.

 

More about Roman names.

 

-- Nephele

Thanx for the offer - hahsarlsaisktate ;female

[What Did The Romans Ever Do For Us?]

As a result of being conquered by rome many diverse European countries came to share common aspects in fields such as law, culture and government not to mention the several languagescommonly called Romance languages that evolved through Latin. As many modern nations either came under her sway or were created from her overtrow Rome became a great connecting link.