Virgil61
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Posts posted by Virgil61
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Hi,
Anyone interested in chatting about the wonderful stream of finds coming out of Oxyrhynchus, an ancient Greco-Roman site in Egypt where bits and pieces of long lost classics are coming to light? Anyone want to speculate on what might turn up in the next few years? Anyone got a wish list on that?
Ludovicus
for more:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Infrared_techn...ssical_writings
http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/
The Herculaneum Papyri are another great find. Over 1,000 scrolls burned to charcoal bundles have been found and are being painstakingly pulled apart and read using some sophisticated new technology. Unfortunately most of it so far is by a minor philosopher named Philodemus. There is a lot of hope and speculation that more scrolls are waiting under the largely unexcavated portion of the villa they belonged to.
My wish list would include all of Polybius works, all of Livy and any of the scores of lost histories we know of only by the name of their authors.
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I don't understand why Kazakhstan is so mad. Sacha has given their country international notoriety. Many people didn't even know Kazakhstan existed until his show. No sense of humor. Unbelievable.
There is one group knows exactly where Kazakstan is, oil companies. I used to co-ordinate visits from various science, medical and industry delegations from the former SU. Visits to Texas by Kazak government and private officials in the oil business are very common. A few big NY and DC law firms even have offices in Almaty of all places. Of all the 'Stans' they're the most progressive and rich.
As funny as he is Borat looks nothing like a Kazak, they're of Mongolian stock with a large minority of ethnic Russians. As for humor, I'm a bit surprised. It's sort of a benevolent dictatorship moving towards democracy for the most part, with a huge amount of nepotism. The Kazaks I've met with have a great sense of humor, are cheerful drunks and incredibly gracious and nice especially when compared to the Russians.
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Found this on Apple's Quicktime site. I thought some of you might appreciate it.
I haven't seen Life of Brian for quite some time and this is one of my favorite bits from the movie. Well this and the "how shall we f***-off oh lord?" scene.
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My former co-worker is married to an ethnic Russian from Almaty, Kazakstan who he met while in the Peace Corps. He thinks it's hilarious while his wife didn't get it at first.
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yeah your right Ursus.....I will remember that next time. But isn't a History Proffesor supposed to know every else..besides his area of expertise?
Zeke
It's real tough for Phd's today to spend much time on areas outside their narrow area of study. I've heard my friends who are university profs complain about this often. They spend their Phd studies on a narrow issue, then when they get a teaching position they spend more time writing in the same specialization in order to get enough works published so they can qualify for tenure. In areas outside their specialization they're limited to a few grad courses until their thesis is finished. It doesn't leave a lot of time in their early career for expertise outside of their focus.
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Countries with the most executions in 2004
China 3,400+
Iran 159+
Vietnam 64+
United States 59
Saudi Arabia 33+
Somehow the USA does not seem to fit into this "club"
Personally, I find it an arachaic law and i am extremely glad that i never have to make those kind of decisions like Arnold just had to do..(or any other governour)...
regards
viggen
So how do Austrians view their man in California on this? Or in general for that matter. How would they view his election to president assuming the law (an ammendment) is changed here?
He's much more conservative than I thought he'd be, I'd expected a more moderate approach from him.
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Perhaps, though I hate to combined ethics and morales and the law unless absolutely nessacary, the living with the tourture of knowning they killed a person they loved would be more punishment then simply being killed?
I've seen them and they were certainly tramautized. Remember I'm talking about law-abiding citizens who'd never broken the law before and more importantly, acted without prior planning. Generally NC and other state laws have followed the English common law on this one, which acknowledges the difference between planned and heat-of-the-moment murders. That's one reason there is 2nd degree and manslaughter laws are on the books to differentiate between types of killings, there's no one size fits all.
Rarely do these people do a life sentence for these types of crimes and there's a belief even in the Criminal Justice system that they'll never commit another crime again. In many cases they're eventually put in a minimum security prison. I'm sure you're on the right track when you say that the emotional torture a normal person would suffer from is serious punishment in itself versus the indifference of a career criminal in the same situation.
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The gladius the Romans adopted wasn't Greek, it was adopted as result of wars against the Iberians (present day Spain). Thermopylae was defended by more than 300 Spartans. There were also around 1000 Thebians and a few thousand greeks from other cities. After the rest of the Greeks had fled or were sent away, the Thebians died alongside the Spartans. I'm not sure that comparing battle with Persians with combat with Romans is particularly convincing.
The Romans did use the phalanx at one time in the early Republic later switching to manipular legions and the Persians did--at least at the time of Alexander--have phalanxes from use of mercenaries or territories containing Greek cities in Asia Minor. The individual heroism and quality of the average Spartan notwithstanding, the edge goes to the side that has a a consistengly better tactical approach in applying their primary weapons systems. That edge goes to the Romans, who may or may not have individually bested Spartans but who were certainly no slouches themselves and whose manipular legions were tactically superior unlike the Persians.
Since your theoretical is against the 'best' legion I couldn't imagine JC's 13th or veteran legions under Vespasian or Trajan adept at tackling several different types of enemy forces losing, a least consistently, against a Spartan force.
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Yes, of course, Catholicism has different strains and adopted many Roman rituals like burning incense. However, to argue that the Vatican is the last vestige of the Roman empire on the grounds of preserved rituals like incense burning strikes me as trivializing both Roman culture and Catholic theology. *What* the Romans celebrated was far more important than *how* they celebrated it.
I didn't trivialize anything, within the context of this discussion someone should point out the very strong aspects of Roman-pagan culture adopted by Catholicism. They aren't all trivial, they aren't even all ritualistic--canon law and veneration of saints for example. To get into the weeds for a moment, in some cases such as the burning of a candle to pray to a higher power or to pray for intervention by a local god or saint, the 'what' parts are quite similar. Even the 'trivialities' of ritual are important as an illustration of the influence of Roman culture.
Having said this, I wouldn't argue it's the last vestige of Rome. I've pointed out that as an institution Catholicism was heavily influenced by and adopted a striking number of its pagan and philosophical aspects. It's not the last vestige of Roman culture, but the aspects it contains need to be addressed and shouldn't be dismissed outright; it makes the issue less black and white.
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I've seen all the coverage, but live in peacefull Melbourne so nothing first hand.
It's an ugly side to Australia that I haven't seen for some time. Personally, as already mentioned Alchohol is partly to blame, along with our Prime Minister who has used fear mongering to justify his position on powerfull new anti-terrorism laws and joining in in Iraq. He has whipped the country into a state of fear with adds like "Be alert, not alrmed" all but telling Australians to monitor people of middle eastern appearance. This combined with the bashing of the two lifegaurds, a very hot day and far right nationalist groups whipping locals into a frenzy over it seems to have really fanned the flames. There was already a negative feeling toward Lebanese communities prior, because of some high profile court cases involving the gang rapes of teenage girls around Sydney.
Last report I saw is that things are now under control, the cops are checking ever car into and out of Cronulla. Some damn scary footage though....
I'm curious, knowing there's a lot of Italians in Australia and especially Melbourne, have they integrated into Aussie culture--like they have in the U.S.--or do they remain segregated?
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There was more than one cult in the Hellenistic-Roman realm that sought to deny the world and project human souls into the highest heaven via ascetic practices and esoteric rights. Admittedly Christianity had some unique properties via its pretensions to Judaic tribal law, but it was still a close cousin to these cults.
Paganism was not a monolothic entity and had many strands. Christianity has something in common with some of the "fringe" mystical cults that became so popular in the later empire.
Though when all is said and done I think the most direct Roman influence on Catholicism beside its organization is its legalistic mentality. Whatever else a Roman Catholic and a Roman Pagan may have in differences, they both go about their religions with a certain legalistic attitude which I feel is both derived from Roman culture.
Good catch Ursus. I almost put in Canon law as recieving its primary influence from Roman culture.
I'd also add less sophisticated residuals of paganism that I just googled that arguably lead back to late antiquity pagans and have been adopted by Catholicism such as genuflection, incense burning, candles lit in request of intervention by saints or God and the sign of the cross. The theory is that many of these are linked to the 3/4th century influx of pagans into the church. At some point, perhaps this same era, the pagan winter solstice was converted by the church into Christmas.
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I'm generally opposed to the use of capital punishment but could live with using it for multiple murders, child murder or cop killings. It should be used sparingly when used at all.
I worked for a district attorney in NC at one time. Some murders are one-time affairs, a husband married for twenty years finds his wife cheating and shoots him or her lover, a drunken argument between friends or brothers leads to a shot, a wife snaps after being slapped for the umpteenth time, etc. In these affairs the murder is unplanned the murderer has never done anything illegal in his/her lifetime. I was surprised to see that among these one-time cases the murderer is traumatized by their own act, that split second heat of the moment action. These people deserve punishment but they don't deserve to die and are rarely put on death row except in higly publicized cases or with aggressive DA's trying to prove a point.
Career criminals, those with a felony background, should be given life without parole. As I wrote above, multiple murderers, child killers and cop killers I would grudgingly consider the ultimate penalty for.
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I believe the vatican is only Roman in the sense that they never lost their title. Thought you can hardly call some one Roman becuase they speak Latin. The people of the vatican don't hold any old Roman traditions, they don't follow the Roman social system, and to call the Vatican Rome would be an insult (in my mind) to Rome's legacy which I don't think was lived up to by the Vatican or its members.
Sorry if I offended anyone... I have some what biased views on the Vatican.
Actually they Catholic church is more Roman than you've let on. I agree with some of what Cato has written countering some areas where Catholics are not Roman--though the reason for the enlightenment is a much more complex process--but there's also a dichotomy going on where the church maintains traditions started among the Romans.
The church adopted many of it's original holy days from Pagan holidays, the obvious value of this linkage is apparent to anyone. While never-ever-worshipped as Gods of any sort, the veneration of saints is partially linked to the existence of a variety of Pagan dieties. The mysteries and visions, as well as the importance of sacred shrines in Catholicism are not only linked to eastern traditions but are also echoed in the pagan interpretation of dreams, visitations to oracles and maintenance of areas sacred to particular gods. While a Roman wouldn't appreciate many aspects of Catholicism, they would understand well saintly shrines, holy visions and sacred texts.
Comparing the use of the Sibylline books with use of the Book of Revelations shows a similarity of application between the two-- though many Protestant sects have really taken the ball and runned with it. A Roman would completely understand an ancient Catholic tradition of having a statue of St. Joseph in your front yard to protect one's house. The church rejected other gods but substituted respect or veneration of saints, past church members whose lives reflected a standard for those living today. Rather than Candelifera or Lucina the goddesses of childbirth the church has St. Gerald Majella the patron saint, instead of Roma, goddess of the city, Rome has St. Philip Neri as its patron saint, Juventus is the god of youth while St. Aloysius Gonzaga is it's patron saint, and so on. In my case what I have on my keychain is a small symbol of St. Michael the Archangel patron saint of paratroopers. I believe there is no Roman equivalent of that one.
The church destroyed much of the vestiges of paganism and fully co-opted other parts of it. They destroyed pagan writings but their own writings echoed many of those same themes. They were highly critical of Rome but came to adopt the cover of Roman protection for their own existence and those texts that re-emerged in the late middle ages were often copied and protected by Catholic monks.
Rather than no linkage there was a cafeteria style taking of Roman beliefs that dovetailed with Catholicism and a rejection of those that didn't. Remember the Romans themselves weren't monolithic in their beliefs, see Epicurianism competing with Stoicism. The early church had a love/hate relationship with Roman philosophy, religion and culture, and the structure of Catholicism reflects this dichotomy.
Right until the present day, some Protestants have attacked the Catholic church for being pagan and reflecting far too much of Roman culture. There are hundreds of articles, Phd thesis' and books written on the influence of Greek and Roman philosophy and paganism on the early church's theology, holy days, etc. I'm a bit stunned that in this forum some argue that Catholicism has nothing in common with ancient Roman practices. Much of Catholicisms theology, beliefs and practices contradict that.
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I like it a lot too, really captures true Roman spirit I think.
Thanks, here's a larger picture of a coin of the same denomination. You can see Winged Victory next to Jupiter much clearer as well as the other side of the coin with head of the Janus Gemini, whose shrine doors were open in wartime and closed during peace time.
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No, i am from Austria, but i lived 7 years in South Africa, so i had to learn Afrikaans and a bit of Zulu...
cheers
viggen
You must understand some of that 'dialect' of Afrikaans called Dutch I'd guess.
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What the heck's going on over there? It's big news in the U.S. on CNN, Fox, etc.
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English
Italian--lived there six years when I was young. Kind of rusty now but it was my first language so I get up to speed quickly.
Russian--I took the military Defense Language course, seven--yes seven--hours of Russian classes a day M-F for ten months. Lived in Kiev and worked at the US Embassy--everyone in Kiev speaks Russian but the daily Ukrainian really screwed me up. Lived in St Pete's for a total for both of about a year, my fluency was at a moderate level. I've worked with Russian officials, industry representatives and tech types for the last four years as well, although we use very, very good interpreters I still tried to practice a bit.
In spite of this I forget a substantial portion of Russian within six weeks of not using it and need a while to get up to speed.
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What a coincidence! im in the process of writing an end of semester paper on the comparison between greek and roman armies!
A theoretical situation, to get the cream of the crop:
A contigent of fully trained and srmored Spartans
A contigent of fully loaded Legionaires (or whatever Rome uses as its heavy-hitter)
Flat, grassy land, dry weather.
Who would win?
For unexplicable reasons i am always finding myself biased against the romans, so I would have to say the Spartans.
And while im here, If Greece and Rome waged war at the height of both their power i would have to say Greece would win; if not because of their Spartans, then because of the largest navy the medetaranian has ever seen:
Athens'.
If you think Greece would win I venture that you haven't read the entire thread. I'm not sure there are many instances of a Greek phalanx army beating a Roman manipular or cohort army except Pyrrhus' and we are all well aware of the meaning of a 'Pyrrhic victory'.
Greek phalanx armies against Greek phalanx armies often contained none or little cavalry according to a couple of reputable scholars and were real head-butting affairs. Greek phalanx armies against non-Greek armies utilized the phalanx to fix the opponent and cavalry to flank them. The nature of a manipular or cohort legion is that it's inherent flexiblity, initiatives at the cohort/manipular level often resulted in infantry conduct the flanking movements, something a phalanx wasn't able to do with much finesse or if a phlananx line was broken anywhere to exploit it by utilizing their sword drills to slaughter hoplites at close-order fighting. So if your Spartans have no cavalry, are fighting on flat land and have no river/hills to secure their flanks from encirclement, they would have a 'situation' on their hands, to put it mildly.
The Carthaginians wrestled control of the western Med sea from a major Greek sea power--Syracuse--became the most powerful Med fleet since Athens and took on the Romans. They responded with the hurculean task of creating a navy from scratch and eventually winning control of the sea from the Carthaginians.
Whatever the strength and discipline of the average Spartan, their tactical approach was a one-trick pony that could and would be exploited by a well-trained more flexible tactical array.
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I assume this is where Virgil got his source or something related. It says Herodotus says that the Etruscanscame from Lydia, then on to that scholars believe that they from Asian Minor. Just read it.introduction.
No, but thanks for the link, interesting reading. Like I said I recall reading the theory being put forth by several scholars, but nothing this recent and certainly no one being this determined and specific about their origins.
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An interesting university level professor's hand out sheet regarding late imperial provincial populations
That's Prof. Kenneth Harl, great speaker on Roman history. I've got his "The Teaching Company's" Roman lectures, good stuff if you ever get a chance.
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So just because Aeneas is most likely a literary fabrication, doesn't mean there is no truth to those potential roots for Roman civilization....
Etruscans seem to have come originally from Asia Minor though at a much earlier period.
When? And based on what evidence?
Cato, it's been awhile so I can't answer exactly when or what evidence but I can concur that I've read contemporary archeologists and historians give the theory of an eastern source--either Asia Minor or the eastern Med--for Etruscans some credence. If I remember correctly it's partly based on linguistics and partly on ancient sources besides Herodutus in agreement with archeological timelines.
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The Crisis of the Third Century, taken as a whole. The loss of faith in imperial unity as an aftermath started a devolution toward more local oriented economies and cultures. The foundations of the infernal Middle Ages were already being laid by the time the Germanic hordes finally severed the political unity of the West.
I second this. In so many ways--militarily, culturally and politically--the empire that came out of the Crisis seems at some levels fundamentally different from what came before it. It is a major turning point in Roman history.
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A quadrigatus, pre-denarius Roman coin minted until around the time of the 2d Punic War. It consists of Jupiter with scepter and thunderbolt in a chariot driven by a smaller, slightly hard to see due to the small size, winged Victory with Roma inscribed below.
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When I was in 7/8/9th grade his off-color albums (those vinyl things) were endless sources of crude but sometimes insightful amusement for my friends and I. An incredibly influential comedian who inspired some great, and some not so great trends in comedy in this generation. He had a tremendously difficult life, became ill and dropped out of the public eye for most of the last fifteen years but I was sorry to see him go.
Did Caesar Ultimately
in Imperium Romanorum
Posted · Edited by Virgil61
Michael Parenti is a "hack"? You may not like his politics, and I suspect that 's your real beef, but calling him a hack is pure hyperbole.
Cato I think you're trying too hard to make the past shoehorn into a vision of the principles you think the U.S. was founded on. Unfortunately it was never the idyllic Republic the founding fathers thought it was, it was usually a far uglier affair.
Perhaps not 'all' opponents to Caesar, most of them certainly. The opponents to the optimates (which I think is what you meant, not populares) weren't always strictly 'for the poor', but they tapped that deep-seated frustration with the optimates that characterized the history of the Republic since the struggle for the orders through the Gracchi and on down to this era. You can't tap frustration if it ain't there.
Competing agendas for reform?
I wrote an equally favorable review and he is aware. It's called baiting.