Pantagathus
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Posts posted by Pantagathus
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I don't know if I buy that argument anymore...Illiterate societies such as early Rome tend to have strong, and essentially reliable oral traditions, which would have retained core facts about the foundation.In the beginning of M.I.Finley's The World of Odysseus (perhaps in the intro by Bernard Knox) an example is given where an illiterate Cretan epic poetry singer was asked in the 50's to tell about a famous WWII incident of a German General's kidnapping by British agents with the help of Cretan guerillas. Other than the fact that he indeed told about the kidnapping, the key players were totally wrong in that the British were regaled to a secondary role and a Cretan love story was inserted into the mix. This was only 9 years after the well documented event happened.
Taking this into consideration, in my view, the only 'core fact' preserved in the R&R myth from oral tradition is that Rome as a city was founded and ceased to be a collection of seperate villages on the hill.
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Salve Flavia!
Welcome & thanks for the insight.
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Kosmo, sorry I'm just now seeing this...
I wouldn't say that the wool trade lacked intensity or specialization during the Roman era. All one has to do is look at the anecdotal evidence in the likes of Strabo & Pliny to see how lively & specialized it must have been. I can think of plenty of instances where they praise the wool of a particular city or country and how sought after they are & why.
As for cotton, the written record is a bit confused but it seems clear enough that even as early a Herodotus cotton muslins from India were known and prized trade goods. As for why it's cultivation didn't spread in antiquity, that's a darn good question.
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I have it and have not finished it. In fact I owe UNRV a review for it. From what I have read, I would say that it is a bit tedious and if you are not up on general (proto)Indo-European religious studies you'll be a bit lost. It also struck me a a bit out of date. However, there are some valuable insights in it.
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Pantagathus bribes some of GO's brigands with some exceptional garum and leaves the party...
The Centurion tried to make him halt until one of the Cordax dancers moved in to divert his attention.
Pantagathus is now truely GONE, down the Via Ostiense and to his awaiting ship in Ostia...
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Although, as Edgewaters says we will never no for sure, how probable would it be if the Celts simply slept in open fields with their blankets and cloaks for protection?
I can recall Strabo saing exactly that about a few Celtiberian tribes. Seosamh, I would suggest looking into Caesars commentaries or Strabo's section on Gaul for an answer.
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In fact, Crank Yankers (with Sarah Silverman) was one of my favorite teevee shows.
Me too Nephele, I miss it.
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He doesn't know that his Cordax is a transvestite.
Pantagathus retrieves a tincture of *something* from Pertinax and slips it in GO
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Those, whose heads don't bounce, will be exiled to the Tin Islands.
I was headed there shortly anyway... Seems the bronze statue of the God Consul for his newly erected temple has already stressed every stannary outside of the Casseritides!
(With that said Pantagathus slips back into the shadows of the portico with one of the Cordax dancers...
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There is a disturbance in the Force, a presence I have not felt since...
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Using modern techniques
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God bless "The Onion!" That is awesome!
Besides the usual maiden-mother-crone conflicts, the strained relationship between Birch's sister, Pythia, who recently converted to Wicca, and his father, a devout Dionysian, is another source of tension...
Yep, God bless!
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Perhaps but one important question is how would they benefit in doing so? What would be the motivation?Maybe the phoenicians themselves, who knew a thing or two about the Assyrian warfare, could pass informations and goods.
One of the current pervasive debates is who took the initiative in the early cultural & economic exchanges between the Greeks & the Phoenicians. The arguments on either side are very enlightening.The role of phoenicians in Arhaic Greece it's often neglectedOne thing is for certain, these cultures of course did not operate in vacuums. I've seen it argued convincingly that one of the most Greek of Greek societal features, the Polis can be found to have precedence in the independent city state model of Phoenicia.
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A snapshot...
The World of Odysseus (New York Review Books Classics Series) - M.I. Finley
Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor - Joseph Campbell
Seagoing Ships & Seamanship in the Bronze Age Levant - Shelley Wachsmann
A Phoenician-Punic Grammar (Handbook of Oriental Studies/Handbuch Der Orientalistik) - Charles R. Krahmalkov
Food, Cookery, and Dining in Ancient Times: Alexis Soyer's Pantropheon - Alexis Soyer
The Trojan Epic: Posthomerica (Johns Hopkins New Translations from Antiquity) - Quintus of Smyrna (Author), Alan James (Editor)
The Edges of the Earth in Ancient Thought - James S. Romm
In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology, and Myth - J. P. Mallory
The Archaeology Of Iberia: The Dynamics of Change (Theoretical Archaeology Group) - M. DiAz-Andreu
The Origins of Complex Societies in Late Prehistoric Iberia (Archaeological Series ; 8) - Katina T. Lillios
The Beginnings of Rome: Italy From the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars - Tim Cornell
Greek Mysteries: The Archaeology of Ancient Greek Secret Cults - M. Cosmopoulos
The Archaeology Of Early Rome and Latium - Ross R Holloway
Social Struggles in Archaic Rome: New Perspectives on the Conflict of the Orders - Tim Cornell
Geometric Greece: 900-700 B.C. - J.N Coldstream
Greek Identity in the Western Mediterranean: Papers in Honour of Brian Shefton (Mnemosyne, Bibliotheca Classica Batava Supplementum) - Brian B. Shefton (Editor), Kathryn Lomas (Editor)
Lefkandi II: The Protogeometric Building at Toumba the Excavation of the Building , Its Architecture and Finds - M. R. Popham
How to Kill a Dragon: Aspects of Indo-European Poetics - Calvert Watkins
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Pantaghatus - Your scholalry attention it's focused in an interesting direction. The transition between the Dark Age and Classical Age it's an imensly important period. I hope to see more about this.
Thanks Kosmo, the Archaic period is still really taken for granted or overlooked but truely is immensely important.
I have to admit the possible Assyrian connection was nagging at me the more & more I read up on Greek 'commercial' sites in the Near east like Al Mina and Tarsus. The timing was just too coincidental. One question I kept asking myself was 'were the Euboeans in Al Mina to peddle their steel to the Assyrian war machine (perhaps at the behest of the Phoenicians)?' If the answer was even close to yes (which seems highly likely), then I thought it would be naive to think they wouldn't learn a few things on that front.To connect the origins of hoplite equipament with Italy it's really surprising, but I have not heard even about the assyrian connection despite the resamblance of assyrian heavy infantry with hoplite phalanx.Then I was reading Anthony M. Snodgrass' Archaic Greece and he also made the connection between the introduction of the hoplite and the 'Ionian' (Euboean + some) interface with Assyria and the Euboean interface with Italic tribes.
Always funny when you have a "Eureka" moment only to find out that it's a hypothesis over 25 years old!
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My Amazon wishlist is 6 pages long....
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Good luck LW & have fun!
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I've always consider the Loeb Editions to be somewhat of a gold standard if you want the work in the original across the page from the translation.
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omg, I'm laughing so hard I'm coughing up my lungs.
I have been for the last couple of hours... the combo of the dog's names, their picture & their ailments is just too much!!
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"In March, Beergoggles was diagnosed with Mildewed Face."
"Because his skull plates never fused in the womb, Hubcap can only obtain relief from his cluster headaches by sexually abusing a small squeak toy."
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OMG!!!
(Unfortunately based on truth though...)WASHINGTON, DC
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For the sake of discussion I'll submit something that's occupied my scholarly attention lately: the Lelantine War between Chalcis & Eretria in Euboea (Greece); 720ish ~ 690ish BC.
It was the first conflict on a large scale in Archaic Greece that pulled in contenders & alliances from all corners of the Greek world at the time. Though literary evidence is woefully slight, it has been convincingly argued that the late phases of the war saw the birth of the Hoplite which as an evolutionary step was likely brought about from the Euboean's direct experience with the Assyrian army via their commercial colony at Al Mina in northern Syria and surprisingly enough perhaps too because of the use of bronze armor pieces (helmets & arm pieces) by the archaic Italic people they encountered via their colonies at Pithekoussai & Cumae in the 8th Century BC.
Though Chalcis seems to have emerged the likely victor, both cities began to decline afterwards because the very introduction of the new style of warfare came with major consequences for two societies who aristocracy was based on horse ownership and cavalry
Remus And Romulus
in Imperium Romanorum
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Ha! That is definitely a prudent reply. However, it just seems to me that it's equally dangerous to replace an average with a median because one doesn't like the way the curve is going.
When considering & defending the 'general' did the lecturer offer other alternatives where oral tradition was pitted against well documented accounts with a different, more reliable result?
I'll have to check that book out Maty.
Accuracy of historical accounts regarding the Archaic Period is of great interest to me lately and oral tradition is a big factor in that.