Violentilla
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Posts posted by Violentilla
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I live near Nashville, Tennessee. Born in NYC.
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The name Violentilla (Violent one) is from Statius’ Silvae, she was the wife of Stella and a dominant woman, who ran a boarding house, I believe. I loved the sound of it, even though I say it wrong in my head (I don't pronounce the 'll's)
Anyway, I chose the name when I joined Nova Roma, which I am only a fringe member of now, because I have a local gens that studies the Religio, my main interest. I still love the name though!
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Cleopatra looked beautiful but I'm sure there will be people disappointed. It's hard to cast a role for one of the world's most beautiful women. I was disappointed with the casting of Helen in the movie "Troy". If they depict Cleopatra as being anywhere as sexy as they do Atia then I'm sure the episode will come out fine.
As I remember, Cleopatra wasn't necessarily gorgeous. I like to think that what she had was charisma and a powerful way about her that made her intriguing.
The snippets I saw for next week show Cleopatra with short cropped hair, and I thought they kept their heads shaved clean underneath the wigs. So now I'm curious about that.
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What a fascinating article! Thanks for posting it!
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I hope you don't think this as odd, but I would have probably been a brothel or bar matron. I'm at my best when I have something to be in charge of. Also, I can't see myself being in the upscale part of town, I'm more of a down to earth person.
There are also parts of me that want to be a Vestal, or on the opposite side of the spectrum, a gladiatrix!
I guess it depends what day you ask me.
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Oh, I didn't think you were anti-lesbian, LOL. I felt it was tense because the situation was. I mean even though sexuality was seen differently, certainly their social status and age difference would make their coupling a bit nervous, so I didn't see it as the actresses' not being comfortable. I'm glad they didn't look too comfortable with one another, it would have reminded me of modern *or*. I just felt that as they've been so open with other sexual scenes, why clip this one so short? Maybe they will revisit their relationship later on.
That makes sense with the Vorenus character, thanks.
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I am looking forward to what they do with Cleopatra, I only caught bits of the tease scenes for next week. I admire her historically, let's see how they portray her in the series.
I thought the tense lesbian scene should have gone longer actually. They've had no trouble showing heterosexual scenes, I felt they copped out a bit on the girl-girl visuals. No matter, the husband was happy, and I think it makes the story interesting, and I wonder how Atia and her daughter will interact now.
I missed exactly how Vorenus left the camp of Pompey, I only saw him reporting to Caesar. Was it as he said, or did he strike a deal with Pompey?
I will watch the rebroadcast on Tuesday, but right now I'm puzzled.
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You are of course entitled to your opinion regarding a previous post insinuating such a thing, though reading back through I can find no one saying anything remotely similar to that about about the show -- in fact most have praised HBO for doing their best to make it as accurate as possible, while still making a storyline worth tuning in for.
I suppose I am also entitled to the opinion that your previous post comes off as self-righteous and condescending to the folks on this thread, who have pretty much all said that they enjoy watching the show, and also enjoy the study of the historical events brought up by the program. I for one was a little miffed that you found the need to tell us you were displeased as your very first post, and to be honest, reading that post a second time has not changed that feeling for me at all. While tone and inflection cannot be related through type, I still found what you said to be of an inflammatory nature.
So, I will no longer reply in this thread to your posts, because I don't want to be kicked from the boards over something so trivial. I would urge you, however, to reread things before you post them--what you see as being wise words may just be you coming off as pompous and baiting argument.
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I have a question, which may be better placed in the Temple section, but I kept it here. In last weeks ROME, episode 6- Niobe was prostrate praying in front of an obese naked lady, smeared with red paint and seated in front of corner shrine. This was before Niobe and Virinius reconciled domestically. What was the fat lady supposed to be? A devotee of Juno or Vesta?
Probably a priestess of Magna Mater, read my post above, #109 for more.
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This is quite useful, thank you for posting it.
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...never try to tell an Italian girl how to dress!
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Thanks for this, it is very helpful!
I am of the mind that while the ideal to strive for for a Roman male was to be in full control of his house, I tend to think that the women ruled far more than would be publicly seen. Of course a good Roman wife would let things appear proper in public, but she was responsible for running the household, not the man. This doesn't mean she was in charge as far as major decisions, but certainly she has her husband's ear, and would make all decisions about raising the children and making sure the household ran as it should. Speaking as an Italian woman, I can also say that it is quite hard to find one of us who is meek and slavelike!
Just my two pennies, pass them by or pick them up, no matter. :-)
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I must say after just discovering, registering, and reading this forum I am glad there is something like it on the net. However, I have to ask...after all these posts, how many of you are actual historians? It seems most are or at least think they are, or they travelled back in time and witnessed this time period. Last I heard our viewpoints of history are nothing more than scholarly interpretation of primary sources which of course includes bias, personal idealogy, and thousands of other circustances and factors that distort what probably truely happened. So, it of course is wise to take the internet, university profs, books, articles, etc... etc.. about history lightly because viewpoints and interpretation changes and nobody knows exactly how anything occured. Even if you were there in 49 bc, your interpretation and writing of these events would be different than someone elses. Anyways, my point is take this show with a grain of salt. It is a bit like a good historical novel, which is just creating a good story out of or related to some things we believe to be historically accurate. Enjoy the show, forget the particulars, and for God's sake be openminded to the fact that you are probably wrong occasionally. This isn't meant to offend anyone really, just to open the eyes to some people who need to sit back and enjoy the show rather than getting worked up over historical correctness.
Wow. Let me put it like this--I enjoy looking for the particulars, it keeps me sharp on my studies. I'm not pointing things out to appear learned or to gain points with anyone, I'm too old and too apathetic about what people think of me these days, LOL. I enjoy the show immensely, in fact my friends and I make a night of it, and we discuss things in the show other than history, believe me.
But more importantly, if you are baffled, amazed, distraught or put off by what people are saying in a forum, why bring attention to the fact? Wouldn't it be better to just join in the conversation, rather than belittle it?
I am no historian, just a lover of the study of Rome, and to that end, I like to look for the discrepancies, and perhaps even compare them with others who might also be interested. We learn more every day, and most of that by asking questions.
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Did I say something out of line?
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The actor I believe is a well known adult performer in Europe (according to a poster in the HBO forum) and therefore, it is real (according to that post).
I actually wanted to post today that I watched the re-airing last night and I wanted to recant my previous assumption that it was fake. You can tell when he goes to walk away, the dangle is too real to be rubber, or else they've come a long way with prosthesis materials!
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In this week's episode, Niobe goes to town and gives prayer and offering to a heavy set priestess covered in red paint/blood? Is this the Magna Mater cult again, and if so, has anyone read where the priestess would accept offering in public like this?
I did finally find the account where they did the bull sacrifice in the first episode. Now that's good TV. :-)
Prudentius: The Taurobolion of Magna Mater
The high priestess who is to be consecrated is brought down under ground in a pit dug deep, marvellously adorned with a fillet, binding her festive temples with chaplets, her hair combed back under a golden crown, and wearing a silken toga caught up with Gabine girding. Over this they make a wooden floor with wide spaces, woven of planks with an open mesh; they then divide or bore the area and repeatedly pierce the wood with a pointed tool that it may appear full of small holes. Here a huge bull, fierce and shaggy in appearance, is led, bound with flowery garlands about its flanks, and with its horns sheathed---its forehead sparkles with gold, and the flash of metal plates colors its hair. Here, as is ordained, they pierce its breast with a sacred spear; the gaping wound emits a wave of hot blood, and the smoking river flows into the woven structure beneath it and surges wide. Then by the many paths of the thousand openings in the lattice the falling shower rains down a foul dew, which the priestess buried within catches, putting her head under all the drops. She throws back her face, she puts her cheeks in the way of the blood, she puts under it her ears and lips, she interposes her nostrils, she washes her very eyes with the fluid, nor does she even spare her throat but moistens her tongue, until she actually drinks the dark gore. Afterwards, the corpse, stiffening now that the blood has gone forth, is hauled off the lattice, and the priestess, horrible in appearance, comes forth, and shows her wet head, her hair heavy with blood, and her garments sodden with it. This woman, all hail and worship at a distance, because the ox's blood has washed her, and she is born again for eternity.
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I guess the weird thing about how they adapted this is that they didn't understand that these priestesses were actually self-castrated men, and I'm sure that even though Atia is a rich woman, she probably couldn't make herself a priestess in a castrated cult, right?
And one more thing--wouldn't a sacrifice to Cybele/Magna Mater be a white animal? Only chthonic dieties received black animals.
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Actually, vomitoriums have nothing to do with throwing up food (as I learned it), see my post above.
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Thank you HBO for making my investment in Dish Network's High-Definition service pay off every week. It is far better quality technically than most in-theater films, and the camera operators really know how to use depth of field and lighting well. The 5.1 Dolby is very well done, but my wife complains that the sound effects shake the rafters at a volume we can barely hear the dialog.
I was watching some HBO female executive get an award for her work on original programming, and she said that she always tried to make TV shows that were worth paying for. I thought to myself, yep, that's about right.
It is very rare that the rest of the programming on HBO intrigues me, but the original serieses: Rome, Sopranos, Carnivale...that is why I keep paying that bill every month.
Was sex always without love and love subordinate to politics and expediency in Rome?My first thought is the scene between Niobe and Vorenus, that was certainly a love scene. Besides, you cannot have romance without a Roman!
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I was up late last night and caught the first three quarters of an odd adaptation of Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus. Has anyone seen it? It has Anthony Hopkins and Jessica Lange, and is sort fo a Rome meets the Third Reich/Metropolis film. It was very goth-esque at the same time. I tried desperately to stay up fo the whole thing, but it ended at 3:30. I even dragged out my Riverside to follow along, since that was a play I had not read.
Anyway, it is most certainly a tragedy of the most horrific kind, involving rape and the chopping off of many limbs. A must see!
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That was a latex falsie cock. I could tell, trust me.
It actually looked a lot like the one in Boogie Nights, but I'm sure it was a different one!
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The point, as Ursus mentioned, was to take part is this extreem form of Epicureanism. Vommiting, so you could eat yet more delicious tidbits. In the same way that one may vommit today in an attempt to avoid a hangover tommorrow.
I'm laboring things a bit here, but I dare say the Romans would have used a bucket rather than the floor, if they didn't have a pit for the exact purpose.
I think they had utensils specially designed for throwing up, one of which is a long feather stuck down the throat.The feather down the throat is mentioned by Suetonius:
He[Claudius] was always ready to eat and drink at any time or in any place. One day, as he was hearing causes in the forum of Augustus, he smelt the dinner which was preparing for the Salii in the temple of Mars adjoining, whereupon he quitted the tribunal, and went to partake of the feast with the priests. He scarcely ever left the table until he had thoroughly crammed himself and drank to intoxication; and then he would immediately fall asleep, lying upon his back with his mouth open. While in this condition, a feather was put down his throat, to make him throw up the contents of his stomach.
and some accounts say that that is how he was murdered:
Claudius was served a dish of poisoned mushrooms. He collapsed, teetering on the brink of death, then amazingly began to recover. Horrified, Agrippina quickly enlisted the Emperor's own physician in her crime. While pretending to help Claudius vomit his tainted food, the doctor put a feather dipped in poison down the Emperor's throat.
Yet I'm not convinced this was common practice; just as many people overindulge today, it can be a disorder--I'm just not finding anything that says that many people would go and do this in a ritual manner.
The example with Claudius was not so he could participate in the Epicurean ideal and eat more food--he was made to vomit so that he would be in better shape the next day, or at least that's what I'm finding.
I remember my professor being pretty adamant about this rumor of the Romans' vomiting, that it probably wasn't true.
As an amusing aside--I remember a skit on Satuday night live years ago, back in the days of Belushi and Akroyd. It featured a room called a vomitorium which had a trough all around it; feasters came and paid for a feather and then vomited into the trough. Burt Reynolds offered to hold the braids of Jane Curtin as she took care of business, and the joke was that her name was Anorexia. It was a gross but memorable sketch, and I remember listening to the prof and wondering how many other people thought it was true from seeing that show!
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Nova Roma.
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That was the same with the homosexuality in Athens. They never actually penetrated the male because that would make them "like a woman". Anyone in the non-dominating position would be "like a woman" and therefor inferior.
For a modern example, consider modern convicts. It is no big deal to get oral or be the top during sex, but be the bottom more than once and you are a bottom forever.
I think it is interesting that the Spartans employed homosexuality in their military, and the Romans forbade it. For quite different social reasons of course, but I still think it is interesting. I actually believe that humans are varying degrees of bisexual, that nothing is as black and white as we'd prefer it to be.
We know that the ancient world saw sexuality far differently than we do, and the Romans were probably pretty uptight compared to the cultures around them. Didn't Livy write about the Etruscans' public sexual acts being repulsive to Romans? I find that funny, since we know that the Romans were known for being a voraciously passionate people, they just preferred to keep things more private.
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I have a fantasy where I am captured by a horny retarius! Yeah, TMI, I know.
Hbo Rome and... BBC too
in Rome Television Series
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I was okay with her banging Pullo, since he was a Roman, and she needed a Roman blooded baby ASAP. Since Ceasar had no sons, it was a good bet on her part to get another man to father a child.
My trouble with the whole thing was that she should have killed him afterward, though.