Hbo Rome and... BBC too

[Princeps]

It's really kicking off now on BBC (2nd episode). I thouroughly enjoyed the treachery and military wranglings in this episode (but missed the first 15min, have to catch the repeat).

 

I thought the bit where Octavian and his family were arguing over who should kill who etc was a little bit silly (unrealistic), but it made good comedy drama, so it was ok I suppose.

[Pertinax]

Episode two just screened-well if this is an edited down version I could stand more politics without detriment to being entertained .Poor old Vorenus he is so constipatedly English in his decency and romantic akwardness, but I see that once again he and Pullo are serious gladius users. Very good,not as stunning as the first episode as now the "universe " is partly established.How I relished the visit of the doctor to deal with Pullos head wound, everyone came into watch-I swear people would do just the same today if you gave them the opportunity.

[Plautus]

I have a question, what kind of film type is that, is that a 3d animated series or a real actors documentary??

 

Dear Legion X EQ, I do not understand your question, perhaps I am reading it out of context. What kind of film type are you asking about? If you mean Caesars triumph scene, it was probably a mixture of real actors mixed and digitized in with 3D images. Called Synthespians and Digital Avatars. The documentary attached to Ridley Scott's GLADIATOR DVD gives a nice breakdown on how they do that.

 

 

Episode two just screened-well if this is an edited down version I could stand more politics without detriment to being entertained .Poor old Vorenus he is so constipatedly English in his decency and romantic akwardness, but I see that once again he and Pullo are serious gladius users. Very good,not as stunning as the first episode as now the "universe " is partly established.How I relished the visit of the doctor to deal with Pullos head wound, everyone came into watch-I swear people would do just the same today if you gave them the opportunity.

 

On the topic of the doctors call, I had read somewhere that ancient peoples knew about the uses of chewing an opium bulb before surgery, so they didn't have to endure the pain as in later centuries. Izzatso?

[Pertinax]

Battlefield anasthesia was one area where the romans knew how to act effectivley-the opium poopy was well known.

[Favonius Cornelius]

So it is becoming obvious now that Brutus is going from not liking his situation to being galvanized into action by his mom Servilia.

 

In the end, we can then say that Caesar was assassinated due to the scorned love of a woman, for you can also say that perhaps the conspirators would not have had the balls to do what they did without someone like Brutus' support.

 

So my question for folks: is the play-up of women's influence through the series going too far with this ultimate play of intrigue?

[Primus Pilus]

If every man was incapable of acting without the guidance of a women I would say yes, but that is not the case at all. Antony is portrayed quite obviously a man of his own decisions regardless of any female interaction. Octavian may seem to be a pawn of his mother but he is simply under her shadow for the moment, not an incapable player of his own merit. Pullo and Vorenus both are influenced by women, Pullo because of his 'libido' and Vorenus because of loyalty and honor with his wife, but both men have proven that they would act with or without a women's influence.

 

I am rather enjoying the role of women recreated on the show. I must admit that its not a subject I often reflect upon in my studies of Rome, despite being aware of many individual cases of female strength and power. They are reminding me, and other viewers, that the ancient world was for more open minded in the case of gender relations than at any other time in human history (save for recent history of course), despite the limited role of women in the 'official' arenas of politics and business, etc..

[Favonius Cornelius]

I agree with you, and thus far I have had no issues with the roles and actions they are giving the various women in the movie until now. It is just too clear for me that they are portraying Caesar's assassination on the scorn of one overly bitter woman, when in reality I seriously doubt in this instance the Republican movement could have been so focused by it. Even the pamphlets spread around Rome in Brutus' name was her doing. It's as if Servilia herself was the mastermind of it all. That is a bit much for me. Yes women had their influence, but still this was a heavily male dominated society, particularly in the Republic.

[Pertinax]

of the two episodes screened here so far I have to report that both sexes are avid viewers-the portrayal of hard boiled dames has gone down well with women of spirit and brains, they see themselves in Rome in charge of their destinies. I think what ive seen so far is an mirror of modern attitudes held up as history and with no detriment to the storyline.

[Primus Pilus]

I'm going to try and be very limited here, simply because I dont want to spoil the future for our British members...

 

The last few shows have been excellent drama and wrought with intrigue. The non historical gladiator costumes and weaponry was a bother, but nothing to spoil the feel of what was taking place.

 

One thing that has particularly bothered me however...

 

I asked my wife, who is not deeply into Roman history but has been learning, this question. How do you think that the people felt about Caesar? Her answer, 'I get the impression that they didn't like him very much'. Obviously this notion is largely incorrect in history, but it was the same impression that I was getting.

 

I understand that writers have a very limited window in which to set the stage for Caesar's assassination, but they are doing so at the expense of his common popularity. The one thing that allowed Caesar to have the power in the first place (aside from military victory) should not be compromised, in my opinion. However, I'm sure once he is dead they will manage to reverse this trend through the funeral and public reaction to the 'Republicans'.

[Violentilla]

Bad weaponry! I agree!

 

 

But good storyline. My husband and I were glued to our couch for the end bits of this one, and I admit I teared up slightly when Vorenus yelled "thirteenth!"

 

Of course I am a sap, so keep that in mind as well.

 

I also seethed when the 'mean girls' picked on Niobe's dress! hehe.

[Skarr]

I think the last episode was very cinematic in certain aspects, especially with regard to the fight scenes. Well, although I would have preferred the authenticity you desired PP, I'm not complaining as it was done pretty well although the graphical quality was maybe a little gratuitous. However, this is more of a modern trend, made popular with films like 'Kill Bill', 'Sin City' etc. where the emphasis is on a highly stylized graphical quality to the scenes shown. Compare that to the fight scene in Spartacus and I still think the fight shown by Kubrick in that scene is one of the most authentic gladiator fights I've ever seen where each move was researched and the fight took months to film because of Kubrick's attention to detail.

 

On Caesar, I think they wanted to show the 'lesser' side of greatness and I don't think they've really shown that he has fallen in the eyes of the people. He acts behind the scenes and the people in Rome still regard him with great affection and admiration. In regard to his veterans, they would never fight against Caesar but they are dissatisfied and are hoping that Caesar will give them the land he promised each of them. I think this is a separate issue and something that was more political, which Antony probably exploited later, after the death of Caesar. Throughout the triumvirate, both Antony and Octavian had problems with their legions and there were many negotiations between both generals with the commanders of the respective legions, something which had almost become routine.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Skarr

[Pertinax]

I re-watched episode 2 last night (parts 2/3 in USA): im sure its been said before but I do enjoy the clever device of the graffito at the start ,its a very well observed link to what we see in Pompeii and in the Valley of the Kings: and all over tube trains today.

[Aleccius Tiberius Magnus]

Did anyone else get torn up with the gladiator fight between Pullo and the crowd of gladiators?

Despite the fact maybe the armor was wrong, that still didn't diminish the fact the scene was incredibly powerful. By the way, was the dude that Vorenus made into a "two headed" monster a gaul?

[Plautus]

My wife and I were very moved by the gladiator fight. His plaintive but defiant cry of "Thirteen!!" when almost at the end, very good stuff. ( I'm not saying too much for the sake of our British cousins ). Still thinking about it the next day. I like the negotiations between the centurion of the Tenth and Vorenus. It sounds like the beginning of the issue of Veterans Benefits.

 

Question: In the scene between Posca (Caesars slave) and Timon, Posca ends with a rather ritualized drink from a cup on a chain. Was their any social or religious significance to that gesture? Or was he just thirsty?

 

Also, I liked early in the episode when Octavia in conversation used the Greek phrase " It's all one now..." : I always took that to mean our equivalent " It's Water under the Bridge."

[Aleccius Tiberius Magnus]

I think the exchange between Posca and Timon was more about what Posca had to say. Posca drinking from the cup was (and excuse me if I am incorrect) was to show the nonchalantness of the exchange, despite the fact a ton of blood was spilt on account of the "mistake."