Patricians Becoming Plebeians On Purpose

[FLavius Valerius Constantinus]

My Latin teacher today mentioned that there is evidence that quite a number of Patricians deliberately moved their patrician status to Plebeian. Can anyone confirm this?

[Viggen]

It happend sometimes...

All power was not shifted away from the patricians, however. While still maintaining significant power through clients and the prestige of their heritage, they were also able to turn the tables. Using the plebeian adoption methodology for upward mobility, some patricians used it to adopt into the plebeian class and become available to serve as plebeian only Tribunes. While a rare occurrence, such mobility made the entire political spectrum open to the ruling classes.

 

via http://www.unrv.com/empire/struggle-of-the-orders.php

 

cheers

viggen

[Germanicus]

P Clodius for example

[Favonius Cornelius]

During the times of the early class struggles in the early Republic, back when the plebs were slowly wresting the powers from the patricians, this tactic was born. Many names are lost to us, but some still stand out, such as during the Hannabalic wars a number of the Servilians.

 

You could get a lot of details from Friedrich Munzer's 'Roman Aristocratic Parties and Families,' a long-winded but fascinating book.

[Sextus Roscius]

As Germanicus said, Publius Clodius (Cluadius Originaly) changed his name to change his status from patrician to pleblian. This was done so he could run for a specific office (once again I draw a blank on this) that was only avadiable to Pleblians. This also increased his poularity with the lower class since the records of him say he was some what of a Rabble Rouser.

 

So yes it did happen, but I doubt very often.

[Germanicus]

He did it to run for Tribune of the Plebs

[Pertinax]

so this is very much like Tony Benn only using his "ordinary " name to appear on"normal" in the labour party rather than his landed title .

[dianamt54]

The Brother's Gracchi were born patrician, but became plebs to run for Tribune of the Plebs.

 

Primus Pilus explained it like this:

"He was Plebeian via his paternal name, Sempronius... the lineage that determined social affiliation. His maternal side was patrician via the Cornelius gens, but it didn't matter".

 

The Gracchi thought they could do more for Rome if the had the support of the people than the senate. Both brothers paid for their controversial reforms with their lives.

[M. Porcius Cato]

The Brother's Gracchi were born patrician, but became plebs to run for Tribune of the Plebs.

 

Primus Pilus explained it like this:

"He was Plebeian via his paternal name, Sempronius... the lineage that determined social affiliation. His maternal side was patrician via the Cornelius gens, but it didn't matter".

 

The Gracchi thought they could do more for Rome if the had the support of the people than the senate. Both brothers paid for their controversial reforms with their lives.

 

No--the Gracchi were born plebs. You've misunderstood PP. Caste (like citizenship) came from the father's line, not the mother's.

 

And no--they didn't get any special support from the people because they were plebs either. Most of the Senate was plebeian. (Also, who do you think put the Senators in the senate in the first place? It was the people.) And once the Gracchi supported enfranchisement for Italians, it was the Roman people who abandoned them.

[Pompieus]

A few patricians transferred to the plebians after 366 BCE, in order to qualify for priesthoods and offices reserved by law or tradition for plebians. This included the tribunate (the tribunate was desirable as they could initiate legislation in the tribal assembly) and one of the two consulships. A certain number of memberships in the priestly colleges (augurate, pontificate et al ) were also reserved for plebians. The transfer was normally accomplished by adoption into a plebian family, with (I believe) the approval of the ponitfex maximus.

[M. Porcius Cato]

A few patricians transferred to the plebians after 366 BCE, in order to qualify for priesthoods and offices reserved by law or tradition for plebians.

 

I think we discussed this in another thread. Outside P. Clodius, there were no other clear-cut examples that could be named as having renounced the patriciate for the sake of tribunician power. Who were you thinking to have transferred to the plebs for the sake of a priesthood?

[Pompieus]

The brothers Servilius, the consuls of 203 and 202 BCE (following Munzer Roman Aristocratic Families and Parties pg 131)). Marcus became augur in 211 replacing a plebian and when he died was succeded as decemvir sacrorum by a plebian. Gaius became pontifex in 211 also replacing a plebian.

As discussed previously, Munzer's reconstruction is plausible but not proven.

Edited March 30, 2008 by Pompieus