docoflove1974 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Ok, a couple of things: Pentathagus,I have read the information on the Best Of Sicily website.Being South Italian, including some Sicilian myself,the personal experiences have been such that I still can't look at an Italian and know that his or her family was from Sicily. Too many blonde and blue eyed Sicilians,and dark complexioned people from closer to Rome,make identification by mainland or island impossible. If I had to say who were the most consistantly darkest Italians,from my experience,it would be those from the area near Bari. Remember the waves of cultures that have spent time on the Italian peninsula and the surrounding area. In particular to southern Italy and Sicily, the Greeks, the Northern Africans, the Phoenicians all were there in antiquity. As for the 'Nordic' look...remember that Sicily and Naples were 'property' of the Aragonese (Spain)--what is now the provinces of Aragon, Catalunha, Valencia, and a bit of Navarro...all areas where there are plenty of 'gueros' (= blonde hair, blue eye, light skin). If memory serves, there were some silly French k-nig-its (dancing around, knees bent) in the middle of the 2nd millenium AD, but I could be mistaken here. Oh! and plenty of theories that the Vikings made it to the Mediterranean! (don't know how true this is, though.) Furthermore, the funny thing is that the South "Italians" imigrated to the USA and the Northern "Italians" to south america.Argentina is heavily North "italian". Very notable exception here is San Francisco, whose Italian population is Genovese- (this would be my family) and Toscano-rich, and for the most part didn't see too many Southern Italians until the 1930s. I've heard that Seattle also is very Northern-rich, but I don't know for sure, as I've never been there. But esp. in the eastern part of North America--NYC, Philadelphia, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, to name the big ones--Southern Italians are more the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) I am an American of pure Italian heritage. My mother's aunt had beautiful olive skin. My father's brother and sister had red hair. All of my grand parents emigrated from Campagna. I'm as white as a sheet. These same considered 'people' from other towns with a wary eye. Never mind those from other provinces. The Vikings, in their Norman mode, ran things in Sicily for a while. The 'northerners' have a good dose of Germanic blood. The Guelfs and Ghibillenes were Germans. When I visited, I was told that I spoke the Neapolitan their people spoke in the late 1800's. It came in handy in Rome. Some Neapolitans were working at the site of the Milia Aurelia(?). A British professor wasn't allowed to see the site. Once I opened my mouth, they couldn't do enough for me and my Bride. The language itself, is most euphonius. 'O Sole Mio' (in Neapolitan). Edited March 31, 2006 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 The 'northerners' have a good dose of Germanic blood. The Guelfs and Ghibillenes were Germans. I should try and scan a picture of my mom's family. My mom's reddish-brown hair, robin's-egg-blue eyes, and pale skin are very reminiscent of Germanic and/or Celtic blood...her father, a Genovese, was dark haired but blue eyed; her mother, a Milanese, had also had pale skin, but light brown hair and hazel-green eyes. And it's very common to still see such traits in the north of Italy...so much so, that when I went to Spain, they all marked me for an Italian, not an American (!). (I'm lt. brown hair, hazel eyes, and pale skin, like my grandmother.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 (edited) Your heritage does not depend on your looks. I'm an Egyptian you may think I'm dark and have dark hair. Your right, I do, I have really dark brown hair and olive oil skin. But a lot of my family have red hair, pale skin, and blue and hazel eyes. This is just a feature spread by the nordic culture. I do not consider myself to have celtic or nordic blood in my family. I purely state that I have Egyptian roots. Remember Vikings spread their influences very far because of great navigational skills and ships. Nords have undoubtedly been to the Mediterranian, and maybe longer ago than we think. Remember King Ramesese has been proven to have red hair even through dna testing, and I'm sure even more Italians have this. Edited March 31, 2006 by Rameses the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 The Vikings, in their Norman mode, ran things in Sicily for a while. I was just about to say something about that, there were also some other Nordics that came down during the Crusades, wooped up on some Arabs then left their fleet in the hands of other Crusaders so the Nordic king guy could go home and enjoy his spoils of war. I'm speaking entirely from memory so this may be be intertwined with what Gaius is talking about. I seem to remember some positioning on Sicily? Docoflove, I think from the area your family is from, don't forget some possible Ligurian genes! Are any of your family members short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted March 31, 2006 Report Share Posted March 31, 2006 Your heritage does not depend on your looks. I'm an Egyptian you may think I'm dark and have dark hair. Your right, I do, I have really dark brown hair and olive oil skin. But a lot of my family have red hair, pale skin, and blue and hazel eyes. This is just a feature spread by the nordic culture. I do not consider myself to have celtic or nordic blood in my family. I purely state that I have Egyptian roots. Remember Vikings spread their influences very far because of great navigational skills and ships. Nords have undoubtedly been to the Mediterranian, and maybe longer ago than we think. Remember King Ramesese has been proven to have red hair even through dna testing, and I'm sure even more Italians have this. Spot on Rameses. Italians, Spaniards and Greeks have been stereotyped in the U.S. and Canada. My mother had blue eyes and very white skin. My father looked like any other caucasian. Yet, I don't think that these features are necessarily a result of admixtures, rather a result of genes (recessive?) within the ethnicity. Many Romans had red beards and blond hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 I believe that many of the Romans were Celts looking for a permanent home. They just had the idea of building a civilization and living a civilized life. That might explain why most Italians are like that. I am not saying that most Italians are like this. In southern Italy Samnites may have dominated the area. The problem is in northen Italy it has been dated to come from northern area potentially reaching Gaul and the semi civilzed Dacians. (Also the idea of Greek influence could have sparked civilization.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 Forgot the topic Anyhow, Uncle Adolph, late of Barbaria, set up SS centers to 'breed' the tall, blond haired, blue eyed type. Went so far as to abduct Polish kids, who fit the type. That :*****: head didn't come near fitting the type. A while back some lad did a study and found that there were no more of this type in Barbaria than there are in Spain or Italy. (Doesn't mean it is true.) Now, really . At the end of WWII, in 1946 or 1947, some Sicilians wanted Sicily to be a part of America. The Normans did kick the Moslems out of Sicily. In the far south of Italy, there are pockets of Greek Orthodox believers. In one of her movies, Sophia Loren :wub: said: "...smart, like a German.", about some kid. Don't blondes prefer the 'tall, dark, handsome type'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) Docoflove, I think from the area your family is from, don't forget some possible Ligurian genes! Are any of your family members short? Heh a nice mix. The Genovese in my family rarely reached over 5'8 for the men, 5'2 for the women...the Milanese are mixed. My great-grandmother was 4'9...but my grandmother was 5'6! (I get my height from my American 'mutt' dad ) Edited April 1, 2006 by docoflove1974 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 (edited) "Anyhow, Uncle Adolph, late of Barbaria, set up SS centers to 'breed' the tall, blond haired, blue eyed type. Went so far as to abduct Polish kids, who fit the type. That head didn't come near fitting the type." I'm sorry I do not know how you can call an evil Adolph Hitler who did such evils Uncle Adolph, that is insensitive and not right. Edited April 1, 2006 by Rameses the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 "Anyhow, Uncle Adolph, late of Barbaria, set up SS centers to 'breed' the tall, blond haired, blue eyed type. Went so far as to abduct Polish kids, who fit the type. That head didn't come near fitting the type." I'm sorry I do not know how you can call an evil Adolph Hitler who did such evils Uncle Adolph, that is insensitive and not right. I don't think that you absorbed the sense of the point or the emoticon - before 'head'. It's a bit of satire, if you will, an Americanism. Once Stalin was called 'Uncle Joe', but then maybe you are not old enough to remember that. He was not on my list of human beings. I have nothing to apologize for. Members of my family were on the front lines against 'Uncle' Adolph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted April 1, 2006 Report Share Posted April 1, 2006 I'm sorry I interpreted it the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 (edited) Don't blondes prefer the 'tall, dark, handsome type'? Not just blonds. I asked my girlfriend If she thought "Big" from Sex & the City was handsome (cause I don't get it) and she said "Of course!, he's the tall dark & handsome type" she's dark haired, blue-green eyed with severe Gaulish tendencies... Heh a nice mix. The Genovese in my family rarely reached over 5'8 for the men, 5'2 for the women...the Milanese are mixed. My great-grandmother was 4'9...but my grandmother was 5'6! Yep Docoflove, I'd say you do! I'm sorry I interpreted it the wrong way. I'm glad we got that settled Edited April 3, 2006 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Did the Romans have gladiators before after they became Christianized. I know Constantine gave the idea of Christianity to the Western Roman Empire, and insisted they stop having gladitorial fights. Anyone care to comment on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted April 3, 2006 Report Share Posted April 3, 2006 Did the Romans have gladiators before after they became Christianized. I know Constantine gave the idea of Christianity to the Western Roman Empire, and insisted they stop having gladitorial fights. Anyone care to comment on this? Gladiators slaughtering each other for sport continued for hundreds of years after Christianity became the state religion. So far as I know, Constantine attended the games with enthusiasm. What's your source to the contrary? More general point: for all their talk about peace and brotherly love, the average Christian was about as blood-thirsty as the average Roman pagan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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