Pantagathus Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Recently I learned something quite interesting that sent me off on one of my little scholarly sidetracks. Apparently, the archaeological evidence is showing that during the Phoenician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Pantagathus do you recommend any particular map sources for this era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Unfortunately Pertinax, there isn't really a handy map for the colonization era of 8th-6th Centuries, at least that I have come by. However, either of these two will help somewhat: Map of the Ancient Greek World (interactive) -and- Map of Greece and her Colonies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Unfortunately Pertinax, there isn't really a handy map for the colonization era of 8th-6th Centuries, at least that I have come by. However, either of these two will help somewhat: Map of the Ancient Greek World (interactive) -and- Map of Greece and her Colonies Excellent, the first of these is just what I required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 It Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted June 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 However, what it is quite interesting that both the Chalcidian and Roman traditions seemed to occupy the second tier of that heirarchy. Hmm, do we have any evidence of similarity within Etruscan culture? With the Chalcidians the Hippobotae were the first tier citizens, it was in Athens that the Hippei made up the second. And as I said it's tempting, but I also think it's just a curious cultural parallel. The Etruscan issue is a good question I haven't looked into but if there was it could always be written off to the "Orientalizing" phase... Once again, it's a tempting supposition. Oh, and I was just waiting for someone to make the Hippie joke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 With the Chalcidians the Hippobotae were the first tier citizens, it was in Athens that the Hippei made up the second. Ahh yes, I twisted your statement there... apologies. Oh, and I was just waiting for someone to make the Hippie joke... Was too hard to resist. Now for a bit of a tangent. Has there been a study of ancient horse populations? Obviously, the horse as a work animal and as a mode of transportation held immense value, but do we have any details on availability. Additionally, in the earliest times, we know that the Roman equites were granted allotment to purchase horses (equus publicus) presumably from the monarchy and later from the state itself. There were of course individuals who owned horses as well as those who owned stables etc., but did some horses remain as a portion of the ager publicus for any particular length of time. Livy goes into the politics of the Equestrian status of course, but I'm not able to recall any economic specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I think that horses were too expansive and too small to be used for work. Their formost use was military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEGYPTUS Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Just one quick question. THe maps of Greece and her colonies do not show places such as Massalia. I always thought it was a Greek Colonie or was it one of the later Greek colonies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmo Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Massalia was an old phoceean colony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEGYPTUS Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Well you really do learn something new every day I was always under the impression that it was Greek do not know why lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Has there been a study of ancient horse populations? This is of interest: Origins of domestic horse revealed Most of what I've read states that horses made their way (trade wise) primarily from the Steppe folks into Europe via the Danube. In the case of Rome, it has been stated that most of their horses would have come from Celtic & Thracian/Dacian societies tapped into that network & independent Celtiberian - Lusitanian horse breeders. Obviously, the horse as a work animal and as a mode of transportation held immense value, but do we have any details on availability. In this case Kosmo is right. They were actually not valued as a work animal because the ancients never seemed to realize that yoking a horse in the same manor as oxen put pressure on the horse's windpipe and serious hampered their efficiency. Not to mention the fact that they hadn't figured out horseshoes either! Asses it seems were more the personal transport animal of choice while ox drawn carts remained the primary workmobile. Well you really do learn something new every day I was always under the impression that it was Greek do not know why lol It was... The Phocaeans were Ionic Greeks. Be careful not to confuse them with Phoenicians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 It was... The Phocaeans were Ionic Greeks. Be careful not to confuse them with Phoenicians... Yes, but coincidentally they both had great sea faring skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Yes, but coincidentally they both had great sea faring skills. But what... Interesting enough, in Pliny's treatment of horses (8.61 ~ 8.69), the only 'location' he singles out in reference to them is Hispania & Lusitania don't know whether that should mean that is where the most prized horses to the Romans came from or not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Yes, but coincidentally they both had great sea faring skills. But what... Interesting enough, in Pliny's treatment of horses (8.61 ~ 8.69), the only 'location' he singles out in reference to them is Hispania & Lusitania don't know whether that should mean that is where the most prized horses to the Romans came from or not... I wonder if the "feed crop" item I alluded to in the "recipe" section has a bearing on the excellence of horses from this area? http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showto...amp;#entry37214 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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