Battle Of Vienna

[Maladict]

By no means did the Ottomans control the sea at any time against the European powers.

 

I recommend you read a book on admiral Barbarossa then. Ottoman naval supremacy in the (eastern) Mediterranean during the sixteenth century is not really in doubt.

[Callaecus]

Lepanto was not that important in the general scheme of things.

The Ottomans rebuilt their fleet within a year iirc and the battle did nothing to prevent the ongoing decline of Venetian maritime power.

The rebuilt of the fleet was mostly a show-off, since most of the wood was green. But the worst was the loss of tens of thousands of experient sailers and archers. You can't substitute that in a year. The truth is that after Malta and Lepanto any possibility of the Ottomans dominating the entire Mediterranean collapsed and they had to settle for its eastern part.

[Honorius]

Two years after the battle Venice ceded Cyprus, and paid actually paid for the costs of the Ottoman invasion.

A year after that, an Ottoman fleet (re)captured Tunis and raided the coast of Sicily. After Lepanto they controlled the eastern Mediterranean, and finally, decades later, invaded and captured Crete.

 

Except for a significant naval battle in the Dardanelles, won by Venice and Malta, and the Venetian invasion of Greece, I can't think of any Christian navy trying to oppose the Ottomans until the eighteenth century.

 

 

Cyprus wasnt ceded to the Ottomans..They conquered it outright.

[Maladict]

Cyprus wasnt ceded to the Ottomans..They conquered it outright.

 

And after that Venice ceded the island to them. These things have to happen formally regardless of the actual conquest, otherwise the war could not be ended, and the Ottomans would be mere occupiers.

The fact that they ceded it combined with the large payments suggests the Venetians were in no state to continue opposing the Ottomans. They won the battle at Lepanto, but lost the war.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Maladict

[Gaius Octavius]

And after that Venice ceded the island to them. These things have to happen formally regardless of the actual conquest, otherwise the war could not be ended, and the Ottomans would be mere occupiers.

 

A bit of a quibble. Did the Venetians have another choice?

[Honorius]

 

Cyprus wasnt ceded to the Ottomans..They conquered it outright.

 

And after that Venice ceded the island to them. These things have to happen formally regardless of the actual conquest, otherwise the war could not be ended, and the Ottomans would be mere occupiers.

The fact that they ceded it combined with the large payments suggests the Venetians were in no state to continue opposing the Ottomans. They won the battle at Lepanto, but lost the war.

 

i was just making it clear that the island wasnt just given up

[Kosmo]

Neither Lepanto, not the first siege of Vienna were decisive.

After Lepanto the ottoman fleet was still the largest on the Med. sea, but the lucrative piracy that made it possible was coming to an end. If there are no targets to bee looted there was no ottoman fleet and by the end of the century the coasts were well defended and what could not be defended was abandoned. Christian sea trade was also seriously restricted. They had problems attacking the ocean fleets of England, Dutch and Spain but they tried when targets in the Med brought no profits.

Actally ottomans did not have much to do with this large pirate fleets. They were made in North Afrcia by locals and christian renegates without ottoman help. They had political relations at high level but the ottoman fleet was made of a smaller fleet in the East build and mened by ottomans and north african auxiliaries better led and equiped but largely independent.

The first attack on Vienna was made, without proper siege equipment, to force Ferdinand of Habsburg to give up his claim on the hungarian crown in favor of ottoman protege Ioan Zapolya. The Habsburg claim on the hungarian crown was for the ottomans a disastrous side effect of the great Mohacs victory.

Before the second siege of Vienna, thruout the XVII century, the Habsburg where much more interested by problems in the West within Germany. The 30 Years War and other conflicts made them interested of peace in the East and the division of Hungary was not bad for them. After the siege they pushed the ottomans out of Hungary and Croatia, got control of Transilvania then pushed further south taking for a while Belgrade and Oltenia (Little Valachia). This shows their strenght comparing with ottomans so they could defend Vienna even without poles. Ottomans had little with to fight against the european armies created after the 30 years war based on massed fire power.

After the Habsburgs took what they wanted they fought several wars with the ottomans giving up some of the gains and establishing a lasting peace trubled only by their attempts to balance and control russian expansion.

[Kosmo]

The advances in sailing ships with the development of battleships with lots of guns was probably more important then anything. The raid of the english fleet led by Blake, as ordered by the Lord Protector, it's a good example.

[Mosquito]

This shows their strenght comparing with ottomans so they could defend Vienna even without poles. Ottomans had little with to fight against the european armies created after the 30 years war based on massed fire power.

After the Habsburgs took what they wanted they fought several wars with the ottomans giving up some of the gains and establishing a lasting peace trubled only by their attempts to balance and control russian expansion.

 

Not really. All this happend after anihilation of the last great Ottoman army in Vienna. And before Poles came the Habsburgs werent able to free the city. Not to mention the fact that it was Polish cavalry that made most of the job on the battlfield in Vienna.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Didn't the sultan die when he left the field? Hadn't he intended to come back (had he lived)?

 

Ottoman army was under command of grand vezir Kara Mustafa. Sultan wasnt there.

I think Gaius is referring to the battle of Szigetvar in Hungary in which Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent did die on the battlefield.His body was carried back. That was in 1566 CE

[Gaius Octavius]

Thank you all for setting me straight.