Callaecus

Let's compare Plato description about the destruction of Atlantis with what we know about the disctruction of Tera and Helike to see which one fits better: But afterward there occurred violent earthquakes and floods, and in a single day and night of rain all your warlike men in a body sunk into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared, and was sunk beneath the sea. And that is the reason why the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is such a quantity of shallow mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. Helike was destroyed solely by earthquakes and floodings, whereas in Tera's case there was also a vulcanic eruption which Plato does not mention. Helike disappeared, whereas Tera was only half destroyed. The navigation in Helike after its destruction was not possible, whereas in Tera it was possible. So, all in all, Helike fits perfectly well Atlantis destruction while Tera does not.

I'd like to add one more observation about the possibility that the Egyptian priests guard an old tradition, suggesting, as such, that it was Tera's eruption that inspired Atlantis: everything about the Atlantis story (it size, location, war with an Old Athens) is false, so why would the info about its destruction be true? Wouldn't it be better to assume that Plato was inspired by Helike's destruction, which is similar to Atlantis, and took place during his lifetime? Thanks for the link.

True, but I don't think one should take that information too seriously. After all, there was not an Egyptian culture 9000 years before. I think Plato used the Egyptians mainly for two reasons: - because Egypt was already by then an old culture (though not old enough to temporally coincide with Plato's history), being able therefore to witness the events described by Plato; - because Egypt would be sort of a neutral observer in the description of the conflict between Atlantis and Old Athens. This conflict is the important matter of the story: Atlantis is just the Athens of the days of Plato - an imperial maritime power full of hubris; whereas the Old Athens is full of virtues, being the model of society that Plato wanted his fellow Athenians to follow. The story of Atlantis is, above all, a political allegory.

Sylla Thank you for the quote you added. I noticed there a curious detail: During their term of office great earthquakes occurred in the Peloponnese accompanied by tidal waves which engulfed the open country and cities in a manner past belief; for never in the earlier periods had such disasters befallen Greek cities, nor had entire cities along with their inhabitants disappeared as a result of some divine force wreaking destruction and ruin upon mankind. What this means is that there was no memory of Tera's eruption by then, strongly suggesting that Plato's inspiration for Atlantis destruction was Helike and not Tera.

I always found funny this teleological view of history in which things happen in an already pre-determined way, in this case, an "inevitable" march from "savagery" to "civilization", being the historian's work to find in which part of the line each human culture fits.

Callaecus - this is interesting. I'd not heard of this prior to your post. How big (in territory and population) was Helike? J I don't know. I suggest you to consult the webpage about the ongoing research project : http://www.helike.org/ Also, even though oral literature survives for a long time, it is also dependent on the persistence throughout time of the same culture. Now, it would be very hard for the tale about Tera's destruction to survive for 1200 years until Plato, taking in consideration that many changes happened during that time: the end of Minoans, the ascent of Miceneans, their destruction by the Dorians, the Greek Dark Age, the formation of Classic city-states...

First of all, let's not forget that a movie is not a history work but instead art; it is in those "mutilations" that one needs to read what is the author's message Since 9/11, Hollywood has been revisiting the millenary East-West conflict through a number of movies: Alexander, Troy, Kingdom of Heaven and 300. It is interesting to notice that in the first three of them, the message was one of hope that such differences would eventually be surpassed. Thus, for example, the joint escape of Paris and Helen from Troy (something that never happened). However, in the most recent of those movies, 300, the message was different, showing skepticism regarding a possible co-existence; only through war differences could be solved. Let's wait for the trailer of the forthcoming movie to see if there are some indications regarding what is the message that the movie will transmit.

True, however the point is try to find out which historical event (assuming there was one) influenced Plato in his description of the destruction of Atlantis. We do not have evidence that there were in those days folktales about Tera's eruption; on the other side, there was plenty of knowledge about Helike's destruction. So, based on available evidence,I would say that it was Helike's destruction that influenced Plato's description.

I used to think that the events described in the Atlantis myth (which is not history but, instead, a political alegory) may have been vaguely inspired by Tera's eruption. Yet, the fact is that the vulcanic eruption took place more tham a 1000 years before Plato and it is hard to believe that the memory of such event could have survived for so long. More likely, I think Plato based the destruction of Atlantis in a similar event that took place during his lifetime in the city of Helike, which was destroyed in a way similar to Atlantis. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helike and here http://www.helike.org/

I wouldn

Bits of the movie can be found in YouTube such as the final battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OXjt57s7Po And the "I'm Spartacus" scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F07q5CR0HOc...ted&search=

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1872633/posts My question is: why would Mauvilla be considered such a world-class find? Is it because it was the place of the first major engagement between Europeans and Indians in today

Colombus thought that the Earth was smaller that it is in reality, meaning that in his opinion Asia was about one month sail from Europe. Thus all his confidence. And in what turned out to be the biggest coincidence in the World's history he found America where he thought Asia was.

I don't think this sort of news belong to a section about archaeology. Notice that archaeologists study humans and not pre-historic animals. I think this sort of news is more adequate for the Hora Postilla Thermae.