roman wargamer Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 Visual Top View of the Legio Encampment with the individual cohors encmpment included. .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV V.________________________________H________________________ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww m.l===========================================m V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._w.ooo.ooo.ooo..w_w..........ooo.ooo.w V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.________________________________g________________________ .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV V stands for V form ditche of the legio on the first day. _ stands for pallisades rampart of the legio. H stands for preatoria main gate of the legio. o stands for 5 centuria acies line. g stands for the gate. w [means cervus] stands for the cohors fence made of wooden fence pointed stakes. - stands for the cohors open space use as pathway or bonfire area. = stands for the legio open space use as cohors equites road way. there was a four gate in the cohors encampment. there was a open space use as pathway between contubernia as wide as two meter. there was a open space use as pathway between contutriplia as wide as three meter. each cohors encampment have open space between each other use as road way for the equites of the legio. ________________________________________________________________________________ notice: that there was no figure representatiom on the right side column because it will displace everything awfully. and the blank spaces have been use to avoid the same displacement effect when posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted April 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 erratum notice: i notice that there are many typographical error, misplace code, seniority place and misnomen, i wish to correct. before i finish my calculation on how to do the 'ditch' M [means Lupus] stands for praetoria gate passage spike drawbridge. Lupus or 'wolf' is a spike drawbridge in the main gate on porta praetoria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 Whatever the actual number in the organisation, the point is that no legion had 16000 on strength. Even then, on campaign a legion is likely to be short of the expected total for a number of reasons as I've mentioned. then let's then analyze how i come to workguess that a legio have more than 6,000 men of war. first; it is an accepted fact that a legio have 10 cohors, that each cohors have 3 manipular acies, composes of Hastatus, Princeps, Triarii. and each manipular acies have the basic 2 centuria lines, by then, let us reconstruct the basic organizational structure of the cohors; __________________________________________________________________________ fig.1 The Cohors [on the Primary Agmen Column] .Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line .Hastatus Posterior .Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line .Princeps Posterior .Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line .Triarius Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ then, it is also a fact that each cohors have an equitum called cohors equites turmae also known as antisignani equites by their position and signani called signiferi centuria fig.2 The Cohors .Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line .Hastatus Posterior .Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line .Princeps Posterior .Cohors Equites Turmae......The Cohors Command Line .Signiferi Centuria .Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line .Triarius Posterior __________________________________________________________________________ as the Roman Legio experience repeated loss and defeat at many battle. they begun to correct many lop holes in their battle line formation, when the manipular acies line become engage at the battle; a breaking of the line become apparent and gaps could be threaten by the enemy counter attack. so they develop a measure they called supernumerary line which means to support the manipular acies. as their function. they are also known as antipilanus which suggest their location and formation fig.3 The Cohors 1.AnteAdstatus 2.Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line 3.Hastatus Posterior 4.AntePrinceps 5.Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line 6.Princeps Posterior E.Cohors Equites Turmae......The Cohors Command Line 0.Signiferi Centuria 7.AnteTriarius 8.Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line 9.Triarius Posterior the figure representation now shows 10 battle line of centuria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2007 some explainatory note: to define direction we need to address the following whiere is the north, etc, and etc. then, let's decide the point of direction: the top of the monitor shall be our north and the direction facing the enemy. left as the west, right as the east, and down as the south. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ plotting the camp draw a perfect square composes of 25 square. 90 mm will do in a standard typewriting paper, but i advise the 450 mm measurement in a large paper. .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV V.________________________________H________________________ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww m.l===========================================m V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._w.ooo.ooo.ooo..w_w..........ooo.ooo.w V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.________________________________g________________________ .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV it become very apparent that to closely understant the subject being talk about, plotting it in your own paper work is a very necesary... as it is almost impossible to pin point the exact directional point i am talking about without the aid of technical desciption. for exmple: where is the rampart place beginning and end of responsibility being guarded by the cohors 1. The Camp Gate Porta (LA) gate Porta praetoria - at the North is at at 000 degree Porta principales dextra- at the East is at 081 degree Porta principales sinistra- at the West is at 279 degree Porta decumana - at the South is at 180 degree the via principales there was a horizontal chief main street that runs straight from west to east that is also parallel and in front or north side of cohors 7, cohors 9 and cohors 8. it is not in a perfect equitor of the camp but slightly in favor of the north. here is the point of direction, draw a straight line from point 279 degree to point 081 degree. there was no direct vertical roads that runs straight from porta praetoria to porta decumana. but it they have four indirect vertical roads that i will plot on my next visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 the road and pathway inside the Legio Camp the via principales begin at NW point of cohors 7 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 8 camp. there was a horizontal chief main street that runs straight from west to east that is also parallel and in front or north side of cohors 7, cohors 9 and cohors 8. it is not in a perfect equitor of the camp but slightly in favor of the north. the 3 via secundae on horizontal pathway the via secundae 1 begin at NW point of cohors 1 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 2 camp. the via secundae 2 begin at NW point of cohors 4 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 5 camp. the via secundae 3 begin at SW point of cohors 4 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 5 camp. the 4 via secundae on vertical pathway the via secundae 1 begin at NW point of cohors 1 camp and ends at SW point of cohors 4 camp. the via secundae 2 begin at NE point of cohors 4 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 4 camp. the via secundae 3 begin at NW point of cohors 2 camp and ends at SW point of cohors 5 camp. the via secundae 4 begin at NE point of cohors 2 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 5 camp. the 4 via secundae vertical on the North side indirectly connect to the Porta Praetoria. the 4 via secundae vertical on the South side indirectly connect to the Porta Decumana. there is only one road way that directly connect to both end of porta... the via principales. you could try to plot it using the following guide point: 011..002..003..004 333..351..009..027 ------------------297/063 ------------------243/117 207..189..171..153 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 A quick word regarding Roman camps. Roman camps were, whenever possible, set out to the format set in the guidebooks. However, a close inspection of those camps found in Britain show that the Romans, who were exceptionally realistic, could make camps of different shapes and dimensions when the local topography was unsuitable for the square/rectangular ones. For anyone interested, check out 'Roman Camps in England: The Field Archaeology' by the Royal Commission on the Historical Monuments of England. It's available on Amazon.co.uk but is a bit expensive. Maybe a trip to the library...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2007 A quick word regarding Roman camps. Roman camps were, whenever possible, set out to the format set in the guidebooks. However, a close inspection of those camps found in Britain show that the Romans, who were exceptionally realistic, could make camps of different shapes and dimensions when when the local topography was unsuitable for the square/rectangular ones. the perfect square are only visual guide for the commoner to easily comprehend and understand the subject being talk. i know very well what you are talking about... did you ever notice that i claim every cohors have each own mini camp. for example: the intervallum space are only around 70 meter [200 feet long] not 90 meter as shown. a quick read in the previous upper post will clarify some details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 (edited) Guarding The Frontline fence each cohors have each own place in the rampart to guard as their responsibilities. Castrorum metatores measure the camp size of the legio. each legiones have each own 'Ligo' as entrenching tools to excavate the ditch. here is the area of responsibilities for each cohors to guide them in their area to guard. cohors 1..from degree 292.5 to 337.5 cohors 2..from degree 022.5 to 067.5 cohors 3..from degree 337.5 to 022.5 cohors 4..from degree 202.5 to 247.5 cohors 5..from degree 112.5 to 167.5 cohors 0..from degree 157.5 to 202.5 cohors 7..from degree 247.5 to 292.5 cohors 8..from degree 067.5 to 112.5 Edited May 16, 2007 by roman wargamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 visual representation of how the Roman Legio do the Ditch. when the Roman arrive in the area to become their camp. they encircle the whole area in Square Formation. the whole legio do a single line of men in battleline formation; Trarii in the rear, facing East [ Right] or toward the enemy. Left is the West means their back. code 3 means Triarii 2 means Princeps 1 means Hastatus c means cursores -- means space a__means land topsoil topography b__means land lowsoil topography or under 1 meter each man will be required to excavate 1 meter depth, 1 meter front lenght and 1.5 meter wide width. in 1 hour work time 6 hours fig.0 a_________________________________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___©__©___ b___________________________________________________________________________________________ 7 hours fig.1 the Triarii determine the line of the ditch, distance and form... and begun the excavation. the excavated soil begome the rampart 1 meter wide base. a________________________________________________________[3]____#--- ___(2)___[1]___©__©___ b_______________________________________________________________!_/________________________ 8 hours fig.2 the Triarii retreat inside the ditch they just excavated. and the Princeps just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base. a__________________________________________________[3]___(2)___## -----__ [1]___©__©_________ b________________________________________________________________!__/________________________ 9 hours fig.3 the Triarii and Primceps retreat inside the ditch they just excavated. and the Hastatus just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii and Princeps. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base and initial 2 meter height wall. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a_____________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___##-----___©__©_______________ b_______________________________________________________________!___/________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2007 9 hours in Roman time is the equivalent of 3:00 pm of our modern time. fig.3 the Triarii and Primceps retreat inside the ditch they just excavated.then on act of reserved guard formation. and the Hastatus just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii and Princeps. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base and initial 2 meter height wall. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___##-----___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2007 How lenght wide and long is the Praetoria FOSSA Fastigata in the first day? if every men of the triarii in the 2 cohors determine the lenght distance Praetoria fossa fastigata; then it will be around 400 to 450 meters if every men have a 1.5 meters lenght to excavate. it is the triarii who will determine everything, even the ditch starting point and actual configuration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a________________________[3]___(2)___[1]____ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 special note: only 8 cohors do the digging of the FOSSA, and it is called Fossa Fastigata in the first day. in the next day it will become deeper and wider if they ever stay one more day in the same camp. the Triarii Prior and the Triarii Posterior [ 81+81=162 men X 2 Cohors= 324 men] who will do begin the FOSSA. the Praetoria FOSSA Fastigata lenght and width will be translated into 1 meter wide and around 400 to 450 meters long. 1 meter wide, 1 meter deep, and 1.5 meter lenght long per man of the triarii. only the Triarii men will do the dig and the antepilanus triarius will do the carrying of the soil in to the right place, which happen to be only about 1 meter away from the excavation point. their are 2 Cohors who do not take part in the excavation of the ditch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted June 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 See below for layout of Camp:http://www.roman-empire.net/army/camp2.html these camp lay out and size could be subject to many possible error. first it may not even be capable to house even only the First Cohors due to their number. the tent could only roughly contain less than a 5 hundred men. then the via Decumana should be in the rear or back of Fossa and Porta Praetoria,where the Cohors O is. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ as the curia Aediles ended his ceremony while the whole legio and council of war awaited the verdict. the legio Legate stand and deliver what alongside the plebis councilium tributa are known along. that the wind of the coming fall has arrived... and you can begin to smell the snow begin to come. let the preparation for the castra Hiberna begin, so the each milites can at ease for the season. and the wintering camp is being settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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