Horatius

Well as I see it the Scipio case was different because Rome was in a very real war for it's very survival. Scipio won the war and pulled Hannibal from Italy in the process. As Harris points out the 'pirate' threat " took less than three months" to defeat. Yet "Pompey stayed in the Middle East for six years" with 500 ships and 120.000 men gobbling up regions like a pac-man apparently. This had nothing to do with the long vanquished pirates but enriched Pompey and gave him immense power. Where there any attempts to call home the legions at this time because the original mandate was complete or was this all a scheme from the beginning to plunder the mid-east? I kind of agree with Harris that this was some watershed event unlike anything before. I think the Romans of the time recognised this also. As Harris says "Previously, the state, through the Senate, largely had direction of its armed forces; now the armed forces began to assume direction of the state."

Are not your earlier cites all legitimate uses of the imperia extra ordinem though Cato? ( I don't know just guessing) Is Harris just pointing out that this was a case of fear-mongering and manipulation leading to a reaction far in excess of what was needed ? That's what I get out of it at least that this was the first time for such a disproportionate response. He says earlier that "Military commands were of limited duration and subject to regular renewal." This seems to be an open ended granting of powers that went far beyond the original intention and scope. If so is it without precedent then?

Wold have been fun to see how Klaus Kinski would have portrayed Caeser.

Chicanery! After getting a nights sleep and staring at Viggen's original picture again, they STILL look different! I can see the proof clearly enough but I am not convinced.

Lol ok what I see is the letter A is the same color as the square labeled B and vice versa. The square labeled A is dark the square labeled B is light Am I going blind? Do I have some hideous terminal spatial perception disease or is this some semantics trick? ( I am refering to Viggen's picture in Moonlapse's they both look dark)

I don't even see it. Square A is darker than B. Am I supposed to be squinting or looking crosseyed or something?

That reminds me. I remember there was some discussion on these boards about the opening battle scene ( which I think is quite good) especially the whistle and the way they held on to the man in front of them. If you turn on the narration for that episode they claim it was based on the latest research on Roman close battle tactics and they give a name. I have watched it a few times but can't pick out the name sounds like Deiky or something I think. Anyone able to pick out the name and identify who this source was that they based that scene on?

Attia isn't very historical I guess but was my favorite character just for the role they created for her. Antony is very good too. When Antony tells Octavia 'your mother is a vile creature but I can't resist her' you just have to laugh, they are perfect for each other lol.

Here is the official English translation, very interesting and certainly not 'off the cuff' The "Pontifex Maximus" is well versed in history and it's meaning. http://zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=94748

Considering that by tradition Rome was founded by refugees from Anatolia I guess you could say that they were bringing Rome back home, where it belonged.

"Stressing that they were not his own words, he quoted Emperor Manuel II Paleologos of the Byzantine Empire" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5349578.stm Thought some might find this interesting. Just for the fact that the words of one of the last legitimate Roman Emperors can have such impact in the 21st century.

But still... I don't see how that could be an authentic classroom of the post WWII era in America. I find it very hard to believe any teacher would encourage that type a salute considering the socio-political environment of the time. Well since this thread is sort of off topic anyway I'll add my 2 cents. When I was a child in the 60's in a Roman Catholic school we had 2 flags in the classroom a U.S. and a Vatican flag.After we did the pledge of allegience to the U.S. flag (hand over heart) we then pledged to the Vatican flag with a salute very much like the Bellamy salute but palm up instead of down. I don't know what this was all about but remember thinking it was very strange even as a child. Wish I could remember the actual pledge but can only remember parts of it. Think it only lasted a few years then was abolished. Anyone else remember this? I know it happened,don't even get me started on the Pagan Babies lol.

When Rome fell it really WAS the end of civilisation . Everything since has just been Barbarian successor states, including Europe and the Americas IMHO. It is no coincidence that our architecture, laws and governmental structures are modeled after Rome to some degree to this very day. The plebian/patrician divide still exists and is handled much worse today. Technology for all it's comforts and ease does not in the end adress the fundamental human condition.The slums of Rome and the slums of East St. Louis are not so very different.The army of Great Britain today consists of 90,000, ...in one day in 216 B.C. at Cannae 80,000 Romans were slaughtered and yet Rome persevered. You must believe in something to survive. Romans survived, prospered and inspired for many centuries.That's why I love Rome at least. Imperium SINE FINI !

I always liked "The Last Emperor". It's the story of the last Emperor of the Qing Dynasty Pu Yi who died in 1967. Was made with the assistance of the Chinese government and is filmed in the forbidden city. Really interesting for the history and the sets are beautifull. It's pretty accurate from what I gather.

You know Moonlapse I still have my old Crossman pellet gun and with a few beverages and a nice quiet pond with docile ducks and geese I could probably be persuaded to display my skill at missing harmless creatures 3 feet in front of me.

But..But.. thats Barbaric! lol Seriously it is hard for me to comprehend crimes against culture and art such as that. Even and maybe especially at that time it had to be apparent that Rome was something unique in human history. The ruling classes of these nations at least would have to be aware of that. Your surely right of course though,what a tragedy.

"The pillage lasted fourteen days and nights; and all that yet remained of public or private wealth, of sacred or profane treasure, was diligently transported to the vessels of Genseric.....The holy instruments of the Jewish worship, the gold table, and the gold candlestick with seven branches,..The Imperial ornaments of the palace, the magnificent furniture and wardrobe, the sideboards of massy plate, were accumulated with disorderly rapine..even the brass and copper were laboriously removed..it was difficult either to escape, or to satisfy, the avarice of a conqueror who possessed leisure to collect, and ships to transport, the wealth of the capital. " http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap36.htm#sack Thus Gibbon describes the Vandal sack of Rome in 455 Apparently it was all moved by ship to the Vandal capital at Carthage. Any record of what happened to all this treasure? Kind of hard to believe all these priceless relics would just vanish without a trace. Wonder if there have been any serious archeological finds in Carthage or any contemporary accounts of what happened to it. I think I read somewhere that Israel asked the Vatican about the Candelabra Titus removed from the Temple specifically, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3402443.stm but this account seems to say it was transported to Carthage. Sounds like they really gutted Rome be interesting to find out the whole story of this. The Vandal empire lasted for quite awhile after this and it seems there should be some sort of record. Did Belisarius find any remanents when he conquered the Vandals?

Little Kings... do those come in an 8-pack of short bottles and have a crisp, peppery taste? If so, I distinctly remember drinking that and shooting at ducks and geese at the park with a pellet pistol late at night. LOL I have that exact same memory but it involved Budweiser instead of Little Kings Thank God I was never a very good shot. I remember my girlfriend at the time gave me 10 kinds of hell about it hehe. I had forgot all about it until I read this,hopefully I can forget it again.

Is this the same Mithra that was the center of Mithraism, the cult so widespread among the Legions until banned by Theodosius ? Interesting that with all the endless conflict between Rome and the Parthians etc. that the Legions would have adopted in some form their religious beliefs.

Cato you can just install the 1.5 patch http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?page=/u...ml&nav=/us/8/1/ and then install RTR Platinum http://forums.rometotalrealism.org/index.php?showforum=153, it's a very nice mod and I think you would enjoy it. RTR gold is for 1.2 patch only.

Guess they will re-cycle him as another character or we are in for a LOT of flashbacks lol