Pantagathus
-
Posts
2,168 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Static Pages
News
Blogs
Gallery
Events
Downloads
Posts posted by Pantagathus
-
-
As a note to those who find little use for this forum, certainly we don't want it to be the focus of the site. However, I believe these discussions are useful to appreciate the broader cultural and political realities of the world that helped forge the Roman Empire.
I am also hoping people with related interests - Hellenophiles, Etruscanophiles, Romano-Celts - will be drawn to the site, though admittedly we have not had much luck in this regard.
And certainly since over time the Roman Empire became a hegemony of many sub-cultures; discussion of the many elements of the ancient world is not without merit.
You can't deal with Rome in a vaccum and expect to understand the 'whys' that spurned it to greatness.
-
In an effort to resusitate this thread, I'm going to cheat and offer another...
It would be quite excellent if the Sacred Kistai (chest) containing the Ta Hiera ('sacred things') of the Eleusian Mysteries was actually found...
To add my justification:
"For it appears to me that among the many exceptional and divine things your Athens has produced and contributed to human life, nothing is better than those Mysteries. For by means of them we have been transformed from a rough and savage way of life to the state of humanity, and have been civilized. Just as they are called initiations, so in actual fact we have learned from them the fundamentals of life, and have grasped the basis not only for living with joy but also for dying with a better hope..." - Marcus, in Cicero, De leibus, 2.14.36
-
In an effort to resusitate this thread, I'm going to cheat and offer another...
It would be quite excellent if the Sacred Kistai (chest) containing the Ta Hiera ('sacred things') of the Eleusian Mysteries was actually found...
-
How about "The Last Pictii Show?" :bag:
-
I suppose the analogy with the Native Peoples of America is worth mentioning again , if you are pushing forward into a territory occupied by predominantly "organic/degradable" technology and oral tradition ,( being the possesor of "hard " technology and functional literacy ) the nicety of social distinctions will be lost on you as you occupy land rather than pass over it without permanent attachment. If iI can be trite in approaching the Native Americans, in "Little Big Man" (the book) the point is made that the life of the Indian is not savagery without social rule but the most precise and nuanced ballet of manners and social stratification, as rigid in its way as any settled society, I suspect the intense nature of such a society to have been approached in Brittania Inferior also.
The analogy is extremely precise. When I went back (after my Ligurian thread) and read the chapters of Barry Cunliffe's Facing the Ocean on these early groups in an effort to find clues to their connections through archaeology I was astonished.
I wrote a term paper in college on the Pacific Northwest Indians for North American Archaeology and am pretty familiar with why they were the way they were. Why for instance they built log homes, why they had Potlatch ceremonies, why their art was the way it was, etc...
They seemed to the Europeans as more civilized than the plains Indians because the enviroment they lived in molded them that way. The sea & the forests provided everything they needed. They were not often in want of anything. Farming isn't the only thing that causes people to settle down...
This same thing happend on the Atlantic coast of Europe, Ireland & Britain during the mesolithic. These people stayed in one place because there was no reason not to. They had everything they needed within a 30 mile radius of their settlements. Shell middens in Portugal, Ireland and in Brittany show permanent occupation of certain sites spanning centuries. Their diets were extremely healthy and extremely diverse.
Over time it's obvious they developed very intricate social gracess and when considering grave finds of infants buried with elaborate grave goods, the implication is social status that could be attained at birth. But, for totally different reasons than other societies. Just like in the Pacific Northwest, they could devote more time to art and social interaction because of the ideal setting they lived in.
Even the eloborately decorated wood paddles that have been found remind one of the Pacific Northwest Natives...
BTW, Little Big Man is a tremendous book
-
Those a-Viking,for example from a late period, had a landfall and influence pattern almost the mirror image of "conventional" approaches to Britain.
The Caledonii are interesting do we have a racial group centerd unit or a federal combination of similar "lifestyles"? Certainly tribal identities at a later time (55BC) were surprisingly diverse.
First off, I think we are thinking the same thing on the first point. The Anglo-Saxons also flowed into Britain the same way that the main Celtic population had as did the nameless Neolithics from the east...
As for the Caledonii (& Picti & Scoti for that matter), the later writers seemed to just be satisfied lumping sub-tribes all together. This was either cause they were apathetic to detailing the accounts of the 'rude barbarians' or there was enough racial hegemony between these people for those general distinctions to suffice.
I of course lean towards the hegemonistic point of view.
Furthermore, as usual, thank you for the kind words my friend! When it comes to the Pictish technology, we must also remember that these were the ancestors of the Megalith builders...
These were no yokles though the early Christians demonized them... Their goldwork from the Bronze Age is quite exquisite!
As for the upcoming Saturnalia, I am already planning my menu & making beverage selections.
BTW: Last night I drank a Gouden Christmas... Absolutely delicious!
-
Part 2:
The names Picti and Scoti don
-
I feel stupid now. What's a Jawa?
The little dudes in Star Wars that stole the droids and sold them to the Skywalkers...
-
As requested by Pertinax... :pimp:
Part 1:
I find it amazing that in lands that became areas of such importance throughout the Christian era, there can still be such uncertainty as to origins of the people who inhabited Britain & Ireland before Caesar and the Roman Empire arrived on scene.
Even during the Roman era, not much was really documented and what clues we have to go on come from a very small selection of ancient authors. Personally, I find it one of the most confounding lines of investigations due to the fact that once the documentation of this history began, so many competing forces attempted to write the history with varying spins that we are left unfortunately with various, intriguing legends with dubious historical value
-
I would love to see one on the Lusitanian (+ Celtiberian) War with the focus being Viriathus as the protagonist not the antagonist...
I also would love to see one on the transition from Monarchy to Republic & the throwing off of the Etruscan yoke but I don't think it would do well.
-
Came across this several times, though I have never found any textual data on it.
I thought this would be the best place to discuss the issue...
...so onto the debate.
I've read of this before and it truely is a facinating story.
-
My avatar comes from a marble wall carving of Odysseus {Ulysses} wearing his mariner's petasos (conical hat). There are countless reasons why I identify with the wily hero which I obviously won't recount here.
My sig will change from time to time but I really like the one I'm using right now.
-
I'm just wondering, how did the our ancestors from Africa arrived into that part of Europa.
Don't take this as gospel because there is still much to figure out and there are certain gaps in the available data but this Atlas of the Human Journey - (from the National Geographic Geneography Project) should help you visualize how populations spread about the globe.
-
The only thing that is
Quetionable is if the Vedics originated from outside of India or not.Anatolia-Iran; The Vedas are an Eastern evolution of the teachings of Zarathustra (Zoroastrian Religion) which has roots in the end of the neolithic period...
-
The Vedic civilization hasnt got anything to do with the Italic civilization, i dont know what similarities you are reffering to, but maybe you can inform me.
The Italics dont have the same ancestors as the Vedics, because they come from to different zones, the Italics come from Central euope and the vendics from North India!
The Italic Language is close to Celtic Languages, there was even a common language called Italo-Celtic. The Sabellic tribes,(sabines-faliscans-latinians) where of Indo Germanic stock, and had mostly Blond hair and blue eyes.
The Italics
-
My favorite would have to be the trusty gladius
Mine would be another legacy weapon of the Iberians... The Falcata
A sword with the power of an axe. Could cut a shield or render a helmet useless... For offensive combat, a short gladius in the left hand and a falcata in the right was hard to match. Render the shield useless with a blow from the falcata and thrust in with the gladius... :pimp:
-
certainly, the Triclinium must be filled ( and ive just eaten some smoked oysters-excellent)
It is almost as if they were designed to be eaten...
Of course you start with defeathering them, then clip the head & wings with shears and Deskin them.
Now then, doves' breasts are heart shaped and are framed in a sense by a flat breast bone & membrane that separates the meat from the organs. You basicaly just put your index finger under the 'point' (roughly inbetween the legs but a bit above) and lift up!
You then have a nice clean delectable heartshaped breast the size of your palm that is held together by a thin flat bone that borders the whole thing & membrane that is almost stretched like a little drum head over the bone. Excellent for grilling or baking!
Coincidence that I'm here talking about game and I'm having deer & mushroom gravy tonight!
I must remember to pour libations to Artemis!
-
How very interesting-is this the grey squirrel that is eaten?
Also is the Dove called a "squab" in the uSA or is that confined to immature pigeons?
Yes, the grey squirrel. Red squirrels aren't really found in my part of the South and Fox Squirrels are most towards the Coast. Though I imagine they would all taste about the same.
As for the Dove, you are correct in the assertion that Squab refers to young pigeon here. The particular doves I've often enjoyed are Mourning Doves:
Not to be crude or disrespectful to my little feathered friends, but shall I describe the process & how easy they are to clean?
-
I'll eat any kind of skeletal muscle tissue from pretty much any vertibrate and most water born invertibrates. (that means no thanks to bugs & worms though they may be yummy to some folks)
In general I have never been much on soft muscle tissue (i.e. organs) though if it's hidden in enough spice & sauce I can take it. Wait a minute, the digestive tract illicits a particularly disparaging response from me..
As an ex-beloved of Artemis (used to hunt) I've eaten most furred & feathered creatures that are legal to 'take' in the Southeastern US.
Yes that even means squirrel
which is an excellent replacement for chicken in Coq au Vin... Dove is also quite delectable as the whole breast is a very rich dark meat.
-
Deep in a Monophysite Christian church in Ethiopia is said to be the origional Ark of the Covenant. Anyone have any information on if this item truly exists, or if anyone has seen it?
The History Channel show Digging for the Truth did a special on it that was very interesting and I think they concluded the show in a noble mannor. This whole line of investigation was first brought to the general public's attention via a book by Graham Hancock... Just so coincidentaly published right after Raiders of the Lost Ark came out... ($$$)
What's funny is that I've seen some over zealous conspiracy theorists claiming that their are seceret preparations under way to move 'The Ark' from Ethiopia to Jerusalem... Can you imagine, even if the Ark was fake what would happen if that happened...
-
You didn't say but I assume the sword was bronze...
Very nice piece of fiction Favonius, bravo
-
Prosciuto?Huh?
It's a very delicious curred ham
-
How would they know how old it was unless they investigated it?
-
Ok, i am now informed about Veneti warships, but if they were really better than Nordic ships, is another question. Since Caesar had no nordic ship to Compare it.
As i said, the phoenicians is the most likely option. Because they could have recorded it and it could have been destroyed in carthage(for example). As for the Rest, i doubt. We know that Ancients were very superticious, and shiping around for two months, with nothing but sparkling water around them, could propably led to anger towards the men in charge, and a mutiniy could have escalated. I just cant picture ancients crossing the atlantic from southern or central europe.
Well,
I have done my best to give you information enough to formulate your own informed decision; of which I believe you have firmly established.
Migration Of Cimbri And Tuetones
in Historia in Universum
Posted · Edited by Pantagathus
Except that it appears from the ancient sources that their homeland was the 'Chersonesus Cimbrica' or in modern terms the peninsula of Jutland - Denmark. This is definitely from where they sued for pardon during Augustus' reign.
Furthermore, from what I've read it seems that though very far north, they had more Celtic cultural affinities than Germanic. Also, the reason for their movements south before their defeat by Marius may have mirrored the motivations of their geographic succesors of a much later period. In other words, they were roving pirates (per se) in an effort to stay 'productive' during the agriculturally unproductive seasons...
Though during that time frame it also could have been due to pressure from migrations of people from the east. As is evident in P-P's quote from Strabo the idea that they were flooded out of their homes was not and is not commonly accepted.