LEG X EQ

Ok, we are having a little bit of bad timing, i just edited a new passage. I am German and english is not my mother tongue, so i apologize for the mistakes. I was reffering to the fact, that their religion Hindu, is marked by Anthropomorphism. While the Italic Religion is not, its based on the worship of Animals,Rivers, and several gods who are not Anthropomorphised. Further more it is commonly believed that Aryans originated from Bactria. And the Theory that Aryans were the Ancestors of Europe is just a Theory. "I was just pointing out that there was a connection" Yes, but on what facts.

Excuse me, I get your first passage, but i dont get your second passage, where you connect Aryans and Italics. Again, what do you link between Italics and Vedics, their religion Hindu, is marked by Anthropomorphism, while the Italics worshiped Animals Rivers and various weather gods, but without a face or body,Anthropomorphism took place in Italic religion in the 600 bc. so again on what do you link Italics and vedics? Further more it is commonly believed that Aryans originated from Bactria. And the Theory that Aryans were the Ancestors of Europe is just a Theory.

The Vedic civilization hasnt got anything to do with the Italic civilization, i dont know what similarities you are reffering to, but maybe you can inform me. The Italics dont have the same ancestors as the Vedics, because they come from to different zones, the Italics come from Central euope and the vendics from North India! The Italic Language is close to Celtic Languages, there was even a common language called Italo-Celtic. The Sabellic tribes,(sabines-faliscans-latinians) where of Indo Germanic stock, and had mostly Blond hair and blue eyes. The Italics

Yes, Marius was a great general, but, the germanic union of cimbris and teutons, were not a thread to Romes Italy. but a threat to Transalpine gaul, which was just recently conquered by the Romans. Just for those who arent informed, Cimbrian War, 4 battles, around 152.000 dead Romans and 278.000 dead Germanics and 60.000 captured Germanics put into slavery. The Greatest General, was Publius Cornelius Scipio Major, in the Second Punic War, when things went bad for Rome, a handful of Roman Officers wanted to flee, he was the one who assembled a group of soldiers, followed and found those cowards, and made them swear to uphold their loyalty to Rome, while holding a gladius at their throats. He was the mastermind who defeated hannibal, and won the Second Punic War for Rome. "Scipio was welcomed back to Rome with the agnomen of "Africanus". He refused the many further honours which the people would have thrust upon him. For some years he lived quietly and took no part in politics." from Wikipedia Thats why i admire Scipio, he was a humble man not so power obsessed like Caesar and others, he did what had to be done, and saw it as his duty(no more, no less). So Scipio gets my vote. http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp...80px-Scipio.jpg and as for Romulus, thats just a myth, nothing i take seriously , cause he never existed.

I dont think, that we should highlight a tribe in extra. Because the terms that you gave out, Ursus, are that they should have a link to Rome and the Romans. So i think, that when we discuss Roman trade or wars with one of these tribes, the highlighting of that tribe will come automatically. For Example, The topic: The Gallic Wars. i think, that there, we can highlight Celtic Culture.(personally, i think the celts are the least that need a highlight) apart from the fact that there isnt much to highlight on the Celts, except that they fought their battles naked with just Blue Paint motives (topic :war paint), that they lost every war (not battle) that they fought against ancient tribes till the Vikings(topic:Wars) and that they had Druids as spiritual leaders (topic:Religion).There isnt anything to highlight about the celts. If a tribe needs an extra Highlight it should be a tribe that we have alot of false misconceptions about, and need a clear up. Such as The Huns.

Comum is modern day Como, in northern Italy, Lombardia (Lombardy) next to the Como Lake near the Swiss Border. Como City http://www.atlantedl.org/msg/multimedia/im...e/lombardia.gif Como Province http://www.eurometeo.it/_derived/lombardia...t_lombardia.gif Como http://www.villaserbelloni.it/800600j/images/como00.jpg Como Cathedral http://usna.com/Prod_Serv/Travel/PhotoAlbu...al-ComoCity.jpg Tifernum, is modern day Citta di Castello, in Umbria, Central Italy. Citta di Castello (Tifernum) http://www.ilcardoumbria.it/cartinamont2.jpg http://www.medioevoinumbria.it/images/citt...di_castello.jpg

In case that i am mistaken, in terms that such movies have already been made: The Life of the Scipios Publius Cornelius Scipio, who recieved the hounour title "Africanus" for invading North Africa. and his brother Lucius Cornelius Scipio, who recieved the honour title "Asiaticus" for invading Menor Asia and won the decisive battle of Magnesia. Alesia And it should be a very detailed movie about Alesia.

I dont think Arthur existed. If you believe in Arthur, you believe in Red and Green Dragons, a holy grale, a wizard named Merlin and a stone with a sword stuck in it, DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT ??? Ps: Holy Grale, still is the only thing i kind of believe in, the rest is just fairy tale.

I dont thinks so, the Celts were always enemies to Rome, and as for the trade, well, i dont know anything that romans wanted to trade with the celts. Celts were mercanaries of Hannibal, Celts helped the oscans in their uprising, celts lived in northern Italy (cisalpine gaul). The Celts living in modern day Val D'Aosta (north west italy) all of them were slaughtered and deported. This Region was than settled by Roman Veterans. Or the Insubrii and many other celts in northern italy who got erased. Celts and Romans never had a good relation, the Romans were far too strong, and erased more than half of their race(gauls, helvetians, insubrii, etc etc.), the Germanics (Saxons-Franks-Jutes-Cimbrii-Goths etc) did the rest. Basically driving them back to modern day UK and Ireland. Where the Celts were attacked by Vikings numerous times. If you ask me, the Celts were just waiting to be whiped out, the Romans did half the Germanics did the other half. And if they didnt do it, Norsemen and Huns would have done it.(actually, they partially did)

Ok, i am now informed about Veneti warships, but if they were really better than Nordic ships, is another question. Since Caesar had no nordic ship to Compare it. As i said, the phoenicians is the most likely option. Because they could have recorded it and it could have been destroyed in carthage(for example). As for the Rest, i doubt. We know that Ancients were very superticious, and shiping around for two months, with nothing but sparkling water around them, could propably led to anger towards the men in charge, and a mutiniy could have escalated. I just cant picture ancients crossing the atlantic from southern or central europe.

First of all, the Gallic Wars were a total success for the Romans. And we should all rid ourselfes from the false beliefs, of the big bad bloodthirsty roman soldiers outnumbering the celts 3 to 1 and just killing for fun. The fact of the matter is that the Romans were outnumbered 3 to 1 by the Celts, and that only the Brilliance of a Julius Caesar, and the pride and fighting spirit of never giving up (alesia) gave these roman soldiers victory. I think we should all know about Alesia, to fully know Julius Caesar and the Mighty Roman Army. Lets also not forget that Julius Caesar wanted to be Ruler of Rome, and tried to impress everybody with his Total Victories. He almost whiped out the celtic tribe of Helvetians. The Germanics under Ariovist, ran over the Celts in North gaul, and the Celts were massacred and slaved by the Germanics, Caesar than knew how weak the Celts really were and started the immediant Battle against the Germanics, to drive them out of Gaul so he could Invade it all later. He completely defeated The germanics under Ariovist and drove them back over the Rhein. He than started the Gallic wars, which ended with over 1 million celts being killed and a further million celts being slaved. The Romans had no respect towards the Celts, also because the Celts fought their battles naked and that was seen as very primative by the Romans. The Germanics, were the only ones Caesar respected, because his uncle Marius was the Roman warlord who eventually defeated Cimbris and Teutones in 2 battles.

@Pantagathus I never heard about celtic warships(could you give a link on caesars statements), i know about celts having curraghs, but a curragh gets you across the channel but not the atlantic. As for the Irish monks, well, even if they were so curios and liberal, and they participated in expeditions exploring the Atlantic Ocean, if they really reached America, they must have recorded it. There are no records or evidences of such an entrance. "It is also established that the ancients supplemented freshwater supplies from land with rainwater cisterns." Yes, but not for 2 months. They would have needed a second ship, just to store the water, and that takes me to the recording again. 2 warships filled with food and water, and their crews, cant just dissapear like that. There must have been atleast one person there to have recorded it.

I really doubt that Romans shiped anywhere near America, 1. The interest, they were more keen about the lands in the east , than the sea in the west. 2. Records, if such an expedition would have taken place (to explore the ocean in the west), somebody would have recorded it. 3. Even if such an expedition took place, and nobody recorded it, the crew would have died along the way, because of not knowing how huge the atlantic is, and so not storing enough food and water suplies. The celts were not really known for being great ship builders. So alone because of that , i really doubt that celts made it across the atlantic. The Carthagians or Phoenicians in all, were great ship builders, so this could be a real possibility. But the issue of food and water suplie, suggests again that its unlikely. Also Navigation, they could have gotten lost in the atlantic. Irish Monks, i doubt this the most. Because being men of the church, a church that back then preeched that the world was flat, and you would fall into eternal darkness after the horizon. Makes this option very unlikely. Also, on what ships would they have saild. The Norseman were great ship builders and had the nordic route over iceland and greenland, thats why they reached america, i doubt that any others that used the total sea route made it at these times.

I think you misunderstood me, my point was not about genocide, but about the Roman Pride and Ignorence towards other tribes. we all know phrases like: "I am a Roman, and you are just a king" or JFKs famous speech in Berlin:

Just look at the Very first post, at the end I put a couple of links of pictures.

As for the Hardcore Christians, well, if its true what you say, than they arent really informed, the christians who got persecuted in Rome were Romans themselves, Rome was one of the first christian cities in europe, the reason why Modern Rome doesnt have a real Metro system is because the Roman Christians had build catcombs (undergriund tunnels), to worship their new religion. The earliest martyrs were also romans, and in the last centuaries of the empire the Romans fought with a cross on their shields, and the era of the Roman saints came about(saint martin, saint george, saint ambrose etc etc.). So i dont quite understand their logic.

All tribes were brutal, and that depended on their religion, some tribes still sacrificed humans (carthage), making those tribes accustomed to brutality from birth, and it also depended on the cause of the battles. But yes, the Romans were very brutal and ruthless. The romans considered themselves supirior to all. Thats due to their history, when rome was still very young and not even close to be an empire, they went to war against Carthage a well established Empire, with a massive navy. The Romans crushed and erased the carthage nation. What Hitler tried to do with the jews of europe, the Romans did to the carthagians. With that in every Roman mind, that they are capable of erasing an empire, they fought against the rest. The Celts were propably hit the worst, alone in the battles of Alesia, over 200000 celts were massacred(although the Romans were in the minority), The vilages of the celts were mostly made of wood and were easy to burn down, the Celtic women were left defensless against Roman Soldiers who just killed their men on the battlefield (and who propably had a huge appetite of Lust).

Yes, its kept in the treasures of the Monza(suburb of milan) Cathedral.

@Frumentario Thanks for that information, but are you sure that the iron crown was made in costantinople, because the decoration and art on the crown is germanic, with refferences to Lombard fibles.

well, i think that we ALL are going to witness atleast the next 55 years of these 100 years(thanks to modern medicine). As for the USA, i dont think it will crumble, why should it. I think that the US will have a major cultural struggle, i predict that in 100-300 years from now the USA will turn from an english speaking nation to a spanish speaking nation amd from a predominatly white nation to predominatly non-white nation. But it will remain the most powerful nation on earth.

@Tobias After the defeat of the lombard kings North Italy was ruled by the holy roman emperors. It wasnt really about what Barbarossa did to the christians, since he was a strong believer himselve (later died in the crusades). he really didnt do anything against the christians. he just wanted total control of both State and church. With that he demanded that the city of rome and the Vatican states should be ruled by him. This demand was met with outrage by pope Alexander III. Pope Alexander III called for uprisings against the emperor. That, and the attack of Alessandria were the main reasons for the split up between Pope Loyals (Guelphs) and Emperor Loyals (Ghibellines). propably in 1172 the Lega Lombarda was created, a Guelph Union of northern Italian Fighters and Knights. The lega won the battle of urbino 1174 against an Northern italian ghibelline army. And in 1176 the Lega Lombarda under command of Alberto Da Giussano, met Fredericks massive army at Legnano (suburb milan). Lega Lombarda were Milanese, Veronese and Bergamask Knights, Farmers and Veterans. The Rule of Frederick ended at Legnano were he was completely defeated. The Victory of the Lega Lombarda left Frederick with nothing, Barbarossa who wanted everything now had nothing, no control over state or church in northern italy. @FLavius Valerius Constantinus Im not quite sure if we mean the same thing, but isnt the spear of Longinus (Heilige Lanze in german) the spear that the roman centurion (longinus) used to check if Jesus Blood already became watery by stabbing him in the ribs? it could be that we mean two different things, but th Iron Crown of Lombardy is presumably made by the NAIL that pierced Jesus right hand on the cross. The crown is not just "some" crown , this crown is considered sacred by all Christian Churches, and it is said that no rust ever appeard on the iron.

@Tobias Exactly, Victor IV was the "Anti" pope. There was another key moment in the whole scenario, and that was when Frederick I. Barbarossa (friedrich in german) attacked Alessandria, a city in north italy named after the pope. That attack basically ignited the whole ghibelline - guelph conflict. This is a good site about Lombards, its an Milanese reenact group. This site Lists all the Battles and wars of the Lombards. But its in italian. so only italian or spanish speakers can fully understand it. http://www.winniler.net/guerre.html thanks for the replies.

The Lombards were a West-Germanic tribe that originated from scandinavia (south-west sweden), they left scandinavia under their leader Ibor. The terms were to conquer new lands. They settled in the lower elbe region (north-west germany). The name LOMBARD is the english version of the original german name, "LANGOBARDEN". Langobarden means "Long Beards". The myth goes that the Winniler (lombards) were facing an army twice the size oh theirs. The winnilers believed in the Nordic Gods, and so they prayed to WOTAN (odin), wotan replied that he would grant victory to those, whose name he will call out first at the battle field. The Winniler women than prayed to FREYJA (wife of wotan), Freayja replied, that the women should tie their hairs infront of their faces. At the battle field, wotan saw the winniler women, and was puzzled, what he saw were females with facial hair, so he asked his wife, "who are these longbeards" freyja replied,"you called out their name out, now grant them victory" . From there on the Winniler were Langobards (longbeards,lombards). The Lombards were great warriors and won alot of battles, a historic battle was fought in this region against the Vandals, and the vandals were crushed, this is the battle the myth is reffering to. The region (harburg-L

Ahh, the english!! You are the creators of football, i'll give you that, but you defeated the argies 3-2!! But that (propably intentional) mistake is understandeble, given your long rivalry. Still gettin nightmares of maradonas hand of god?? or the constant defeats by ze germans in the penalty shootouts You can correct me, but didnt you the mothernation of football only win 1 world cup?? 1966 with a goal that wasnt even a goal!! If this WC will be a classic,than europes top nations will end like this. england will dropp out against deutschland in penalty, Italy will get cheated out by a ref, you cancels half of their goals. The dutch will destroy themselfes with internal conflicts. The french wont score a single goal, or will fail agisnts the rough play of either germany or england. Germany will be struck down by brazils or argentinas creative and fast play. so argentina will win it after defeating brazil in the finale. whats your take on that idiotic electronic ticketing system, it basically increases hooligan activity, not in the stadia, but on the squares were all the supporters will be cattled together , infront of huge scrreens. wouldnt mind standing next to hot brazilian samba dancers, but wouldnt find it so nice, standing next to frustrated unemployed europeans (espacially from england italy or serbia). ps: i already grew myself a classic german football hairdo: MULLET and MOUSTACHE

Congrats, welcome to GERMANY 2006. Hope alot of Australians will come, and party like in down under, I think you will go far, hiddink is an excellent tournament caoch. But the world champion will either be Germany italy argentina or brazil. Hope germany but think (and will propably bet on) argentina.