caesar novus Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 1) Forum + Palatine http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=Palatine+forum 2) Pompeii + Naples museum http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=pompeii+museo 3) Palazzo Massimo http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=Palazzo+Massimo 4) Vatican museum http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=vatican+roman 5) Colosseum http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=colosseum 6) Capitoline museum http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=capitolini 7) Ostia Antica http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=ostia+antica 8) Hadrians Villa http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=hadrians+villa 9) Terme Caracalla http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=bath+caracalla 10) Herculeum http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=herculeum Honorable mention: Palazzo Altemps, Hadrians wall, Diocletians palace It has come to my royal attention that there is a lot of loose talk about Rome based on second hand naratives, and not enough attention to experiencing the actual artifacts first hand. Furthermore, wrong priorities are being applied as to which sites to visit first. So I have posted an official priority list for visitation. FAQs: Q: What if I do not agree with the list? A: Pray night and day for the wisdom of a Caesar. If you still cannot contain yourself, you're allowed to suggest one more honorable mention here. Q: What if I prefer to visit in a different order? A: You may be quizzed at the entrance at, say, the Colosseum about your Massimo visit. Any wrong answers, and you may be tossed into the pool of victim reenactors. Q: Why is X in front of Y? A: The order is based on a balance of substance, crowd logistics, and presentation style. So for example Vatican suffers by logistics and Museum of Rome Massimo is elevated by substance. Capitoline has style with less subtance, and so on. Anyway, this is strictly a royal matter that is none of your business - just go follow it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artimi Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Oh Great Caesar, I will ponder your words with great seriousness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingan Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 The Colosseum is, in my opinion, one of the most overrated roman sites of all times. It's terrible crowded, restored into ruins and there's frankly enough, not very much to see. I'm not even sure that I would add it to a list such as this one. The Vatican museum would be placed a little further down. Yes, they have some of the most impressive pieces in the world, but the museum itself makes it painful seeing them. More later, when my paper is finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) The Colosseum is, in my opinion, one of the most overrated roman sites of all times. It's terrible crowded, restored into ruins and there's frankly enough, not very much to see. I'm not even sure that I would add it to a list such as this one. The Vatican museum would be placed a little further down. Yes, they have some of the most impressive pieces in the world, but the museum itself makes it painful seeing them. One should never miss the outside of the Colosseum, but that comes automatically when touring around Palatine. I agree Colosseum INSIDE the entry gate tends toward the unrewarding and unpleasant - I even saw a tourism article advocate just seeing it from the outside as well. Thinking of yanking Colosseum from list and pulling in http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=ephesus last (due to logistics to get there). Vatican logistics are truely awful, although there are rumours of times of the week or year that are more bearable. A tourism article recently called on the church to pull this museum out of it's shameful state. But in comfort take look at the Vatican slideshow link I posted (or your own pictures?)... wow, what a Roman treasure trove!. Edited October 14, 2009 by caesar novus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maladict Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Why are Pompeii and the museum in Naples lumped together while Herculaneum is a separate entry? I have a hard time comparing museums and archaeological sites, maybe there should be two separate lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Why are Pompeii and the museum in Naples lumped together while Herculaneum is a separate entry? I have a hard time comparing museums and archaeological sites, maybe there should be two separate lists? Maybe so, but I was of course considering day tripping logistics (with my own biases). Pompeii is the superstar, but a bit wearing to spend every hour of a day there. What aching void most needs to be filled with your remaining shreds of strength? See yet more ramshackle dwellings in Herculaneum, or the gems of artifacts that were cherry picked out of Pompeii into the museum? I would say add Naples museum. Of course if you don't know to request permission for the "sexy" room when you buy your ticket, your percentage of Pompeii related stuff will fall and it can almost seem like a stand alone museum to judge on it's own merits. On the other hand, don't some archeo sites have their own little museum, which muddies the distinctions? Basically the list was inspired by my regret at discovering quite late how important some of the lesser known items were, like Palazzo Massimo. But that point is made, and I guess a reformatted list could benefit from not assuming how you travel and for how long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryaxis Hecatee Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'd say your list is quite classic but leaves too many most interesting places of the southern side of the Mediteranean out of it, like Volubilis (Marocco) or some Algerian, Tunisian or Lyban sites. Also, even if Ephesus is included, some places in Turquey could and should get on the list, like Sagalassos (where all the blocks are being put on top of each other since they're all there). Pompei is probably the most over-rated site in the list after the Colosseum, Herculanum is more interesting IMO. But still it's a good attemp, especially if you restrict your list to things that could be seen when in Rome (but that's not what your list is about since you had Hadrian's wall and Diocletian Palace at Split to the list). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvadius Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) My inital reaction on reading this list was to wonder precisely how many of the sites listed could be construed as 'architectural remains' rather than 'artefacts' per se but then that is a distinction open to interpretation and discussion as was pointed out in my class last night even objects which have not been worked by human agency so are in their natural state but have been moved by human agency can be considered as 'artefacts'. As a list of sites to visit for a 'day trip' it really depends where you are starting from how viable each of them would be and as has been pointed out many of the contents of important sites have been removed to museums situated elsewhere. Pompeii and Herculaneum mainly to the Naples Museum but there are numerous other instances where exhibits are not necessarily where you may expect. As sites to visit while based in Rome they provide a good template but there are numerous other sites worth a look-in and if you expand the list to the whole of the Roman Empire then you have to start balancing sites like Ephesus, Leptus Magna, Thuggha, El Dhem, Vindolanda and the rest of the sites on Hadrian's Wall not to forget the other sites on the Limes 'Frontier of Empire Unesco World Heritage Site - currently including the Antonine Wall in Scotland and two sections in Germany but with several other sections being advanced for possible further international expansion. Basically my answer to the question of which sites and/or museums are on the top ten 'must visit' list tends to come down to so many places but so little time to visit them all Edited October 14, 2009 by Melvadius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Sagalassos (where all the blocks are being put on top of each other since they're all there). Pompei is probably the most over-rated site in the list after the Colosseum, I think a key factor making Pompeii impressive is not only the horizontal sprawl, but the height. It isn't like most ruins with just some stubby blocks above foundations, but gives you the feeling of the original enclosed space. I think many Roman ruins in Africa and mid east are low (some used mud brick?). That is nice if Sagalassos is rising again. For a person not used to mentally translating low ruins to the original, Pompeii is mind blowing because it gives such 3D presence. The height is sort of a triumph against the ravages of time, and gives a boost to not only Pompeii but the Colosseum and Caracalla's baths (which you can also appreciate even outside the entrance gate). Maybe lack of height it is why Ostia Antica and Herculaneum leave me a bit cold. In the latter case the buildings are as high as Pompeii but you only perceive that by walking in the narrow trench nearby; mostly you view it from above at modern ground level as almost a maze of basements. With all the praise of sites outside Italy, it would still help to rate them relative to well known Italian ones. Exploratory travel can be expensive, wearing, and time consuming. I have little idea how to rate, say, Italica vs various sites in Turkey or Tunisia except for a few nonflattering photos. Need to be guided by prioritizing that stands up under scrutiny rather than just islolated report from an enthusiast. Personally I have already used up my 9 lives in adventure travel, for instance stranded in southern Algeria without money or plane tickets. Edited October 14, 2009 by caesar novus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Quick question: Does the Pantheon merit a visit? And is there anything to be seen at Hadrian's mausoleum (Castel Sant'Angelo)? An easy visit (since it is directly across from the main train station Stazione termini) are the baths of Diocletion. guy also known as gaius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGolomb Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Quick question: Does the Pantheon merit a visit? And is there anything to be seen at Hadrian's mausoleum (Castel Sant'Angelo)? An easy visit (since it is directly across from the main train station Stazione termini) are the baths of Diocletion. guy also known as gaius Guy, I was in Rome this past summer. I loved the Pantheon. I think I dragged my wife there three times in two days. It's a quick little trip, but the vibe in the place is amazing. Maybe I got caught up in the perfectness of the dimensions in combination with the sheer scale, magnitude and history of the building. My wife and I also loved the Castel. The inside of the building is okay...there's very little of Hadrian's tomb left, and it's mostly a tour of a cool old castle. But the views of Rome from the top are worth the visit alone. I'd highly recommend it. Also, exploring along the Tiber riverfront is pretty cool as well. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caesar novus Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Does the Pantheon merit a visit? And is there anything to be seen at Hadrian's mausoleum (Castel Sant'Angelo)? An easy visit (since it is directly across from the main train station Stazione termini) are the baths of Diocletion. Pantheon is an obligatory 10 min stop any time you are in the tourist center of Rome. It is central, free, and lineless. I find the proportions and interior "upgrades" kind of awkward, but maybe take it too much for granted. Castel didn't leave much of an impression during a quick visit during the "free" week. Diocletians baths look better than I have experienced in http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=terme+Diocletian (turn on the "show info" button, and maybe pause the show and click forward at your own speed). It has a jumble of churches and a museum embedded in a confusing maze of pedestrian hostile streets and eternally abandoned construction barricades, so I don't think of it as "an attraction" so much as a variety pack you nibble at occasionally. Major parts seem off limits. It isn't directly across from the Termini; the epic Massimo sculpture museum slightly to the south is closer, although also surrounded by abandoned scaffolding blocking everything but an obscure side entrance. If you cross the sprawl of outdoor bus terminal from the Termini, and somehow survive the endless wide roads where exiting busses try to mow you down... you then have to cross a garbagy sun baked wasteland where out of work immigrants have drunken fights (maybe attracted by the watermelon kiosks where you should rehydrate too). From there, you can plan your assault on the fortress of the baths which gives every indication of not wanting anyone to enter. Just about the closest entrance is obscure, but turns out to be a dazzling church (the one with an endless name) fitted into the baths by Michelangelo in a way that celebrates the original architecture. Now I see from the slideshow there is another nice church in there I missed. There is a museum that bored me at the time, maybe due to jet lag and it's focus on Latin inscriptions. Clearly I haven't done this site justice, but I think it's hard to. The Massimo museum surely challenges it in importance, since like the Naples one it cherry picks items from archeo sites all over Rome and Italy (ground floor a bit eccentric, so elevator yourself to the top, then work downwards). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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