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Virgil61

Steve Jobs RIP

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Not many can say they changed the world but Steve Jobs is one of them.

 

RIP

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Yep. I turned my iPod on this morning with a distinct sadness.

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I never liked Apple products (and dont have any) but I ackknowledge his contribution to the world of consumer technology.

I found a quote by him on death which illustrates he was a great man...

 

Steve Jobs on the importance of death - Stanford commencement speech, June 2005

 

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don

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My first computer in 1991 was an Apple. My daughter has an I-pod and a Mac computer.

 

I don't like to speak poorly of the dead. I find it strange, however, that many "hip" and "cool" anarchist protestors run around with their Apple clothing and the latest Apple gizmo:

 

http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs

 

 

One thing he wasn't, though, was perfect. Indeed there were things Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful: Apple employees

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My first computer in 1991 was an Apple. My daughter has an I-pod and a Mac computer.

 

I don't like to speak poorly of the dead. I find it strange, however, that many "hip" and "cool" anarchist protestors run around with their Apple clothing and the latest Apple gizmo:

 

http://gawker.com/58...bout-steve-jobs

 

 

One thing he wasn't, though, was perfect. Indeed there were things Jobs did while at Apple that were deeply disturbing. Rude, dismissive, hostile, spiteful: Apple employees

Edited by Virgil61

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I've lived in Seattle for five years, the land of Microsoft and Bill Gates, the Steve Job stories have been around for years.

 

He changed the world and he was a major figure in our era, but Mother Theresa he was not. Of course Gawker has a particular bone to pick with Jobs after they bought a lost iPhone prototype and Apple called the cops on them.

 

Thank you for your tempered response.

 

Growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I was always taught what great men Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon were. There is no doubt that they became very generous after achieving great wealth. I, however, would always ask, "At what human cost did they achieve their fortunes?"

 

As suggested by the quote from George Orwell (a man I greatly admire) in your signature line, we must be cautious in elevating any human to sainthood.

 

Have you read the essay where that quote originates? Good stuff.

 

http://orwell.ru/library/reviews/gandhi/english/e_gandhi

 

 

guy also known as gaius

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Two interesting opinions on Jobs

My link

 

 

 

As with Layton after his death, Jobs is being lionized. When someone has this much aldulation heaped on her/him, alarm bells go off.

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As suggested by the quote from George Orwell (a man I greatly admire) in your signature line, we must be cautious in elevating any human to sainthood.

 

Have you read the essay where that quote originates? Good stuff.

 

http://orwell.ru/lib...nglish/e_gandhi

 

 

guy also known as gaius

 

I'll just add here that changing the world isn't the same as being a nice person.

 

The Gandhi essay is a fantastic example of his commentary outside his novelistic writings.

 

He's a saint of sorts to the right because of his reaction to Stalinism via 1984 & Animal Farm, but his essays and earlier novels on life in Burma and the streets of Paris are outstanding stuff. It's a pity they are overlooked by the mainstream reader.

 

Many people forget he was an avowed socialist until his death who rejected tyranny and oppression no matter who delivered it, because of that he was critical of many on the left.

 

I've have two books of his essays [that now I can't seem to find!] and several of his novels. He was a fantastic commentator on his era. Homage to Catalonia is one of the greatest war memoirs of all time I think.

Edited by Virgil61

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[Orwell's] a saint of sorts to the right because of his reaction to Stalinism via 1984 & Animal Farm, but his essays and earlier novels on life in Burma and the streets of Paris are outstanding stuff. It's a pity they are overlooked by the mainstream reader.

 

 

I wrote a book report on Orwell's Burmese Days in elementary school. :P

 

His The Road to Wigan Pier hunted me as a young teenager as my step-grandfather was a coalminer. :o

 

I still respect the anti-totalitarian messages of 1984 and Animal Farm. I just disagree with Orwell's solution (some vague democratic socialism).

 

 

guy also known as guy

Edited by guy

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Growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I was always taught what great men Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon were. There is no doubt that they became very generous after achieving great wealth. I, however, would always ask, "At what human cost did they achieve their fortunes?"

 

 

You could say that about most great men. Including some of the ones we discuss on this forum, such as Augustus.

 

(BtW, you grew up in Pittsburgh? Cool. Ever been to Somerset County?)

 

As far as Steve Jobs, I never owned an Apple product. Outside of the college computer lab back in the 90's, I never used one either.

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(BtW, you grew up in Pittsburgh? Cool. Ever been to Somerset County?)

 

As far as Steve Jobs, I never owned an Apple product. Outside of the college computer lab back in the 90's, I never used one either.

 

I think Apple products are really great...I just don't use them. I think Nike shoes are nice...I just don't wear them.

 

I just question the "coolness factor" with either of these products since they both exploit foreign workers. My leftist friends are possibly correct sometimes when they protest against the "greed" of oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, the industrial-military complex, etc.

 

They become strangely indignant and defensive if I point out the abuses of some of their favorite "cool" companies, however.

 

On a lighter note: I actually grew up in the suburbs of Pittsburgh (within 15 miles of the downtown area). Somerset county is beautiful, but I rarely visited surrounding areas outside the city. I think open spaces without buildings, peaceful tranquility with bird sounds, and strange odors from farm animals scar me. :o

 

 

guy also known as gaius

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I was always taught what great men Andrew Carnegie and Andrew Mellon were. There is no doubt that they became very generous after achieving great wealth. I, however, would always ask, "At what human cost did they achieve their fortunes?"

 

 

You could say that about most great men. Including some of the ones we discuss on this forum, such as Augustus.

I had some of my grumpiness about Steve Jobs softened by the hours and hours of accolades on CNBC by people like (ex)? Google CEO Schmidt, webbrowser god Andreessen, and others who didn't have motivations to sentimentalize or gloss over Jobs (like his canned biography on the same channel). These people, who I consider saviors of an egalitarian internet, have been adversaries of people like Bill Gates trying to build sort of fascist utopias where naive and charmed customers are kept on their money-making reservation. They were even adversaries of Steve Jobs too, whose ipad, ipod touch really attempts the same (Amazon's new fire tablets may be a copycat, designed to be a "trojan horse" that channels you into buying their product... held not by you, but in big-brother's icloud).

 

Anyway they really emphasized the idealism of Jobs and the ruthlessness needed to smash the complacent music empire for instance, sticking their customers who only wanted one song with overpriced bloated CDs. Now he became a little more successful than expected, and keeps charmed customers roped in Apple's own overpriced reservation, but at least they can find more freedom if they shop further afield. They talked about his insane attention to artistic product design, which was so rare for crass innovators or marketeers. You could claim this was to gain market share too, but who cares about the motives if the "invisible hand" converts selfish desires into consumer opportunities?

 

I think another ruthless innovator, Bill Gates, would get a very different response. In my view his contribution was to mow down choice, competition, and excellence. The Euro attempt to sue for his crushing of Andreessen was only the tip of the iceburg - he only escaped domestic monopoly lawsuits in his early days due to blind eyes by those wanting to see him hitting back at large older companies. In fact he crushed a thousand flowers in the form of small time software producers who would have made computer much less nerdy than today. But instead he gave mediocre freebie substitutes to captive customers.

 

The accolades included the jobs he created. I hesitate to weep for Chinese or American employees, who really have a choice to work elsewhere. Those jobs are for the achievers rather than the faint hearted or clock watchers, except in my case where by sort of accident I once became a clueless seatwarmer responsible for a key Apple component. This was in the period when Steve Jobs had been kicked out of Apple and maze bright employees were abandoning ship of even companion companies as Apple went down the drain. It was amazing that Steve Jobs was able to revive Apple when rejoining.

 

As for the Chinese employees, I starting visiting China in the very bleak days of 1980 when it almost seemed like a concentration camp without hope. There were poorer parts of Asia and Africa, but not with such a look of thwarted expectations in people's eyes. China has become so dynamic in years since, and while pollution and worker burnout may be overdue for remedy, I am sure that the 1980 people would have lept in a time machine to now if given the chance. I think the issue is more of provincial gov't corruption pushing/milking the hot industries, which neither the top Chinese gov't or western company partners can fully control.

 

For the US employees, I used to be in the stodgy big tech company world that let their brain trust just mellow out and generate patents. Easy to get along with everyone, and even to generate a world-beating prototype innovation. But you rarely saw results all the way to consumer like today's famous robber baron punks. There are always obstacles - either internal turf battles or external competition... that seems to need ruthless bad mannered people to push thru to the finish line. So I am going to remain angry about Bill Gates, regardless of his returning blood money back to charity, but maybe give a pass to Steve Jobs. The face book founder seems pretty unethical, but I haven't looked into that in detail. Hurray for Andreessen, the googleplex, and others.

Edited by caesar novus

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