Hbo Rome and... BBC too

[Caesar's 10th]

Glad to have joined the board! The previous reply by myself was not intended to violentilla or any one person. It's just that I found this message board and read through pages of posts and when I got to the end I was thrilled that there was a place to talk about such a great show and even talk about the connection between what we know historically about this time period and what HBO has decided to do with the show. I did notice though that a few people posted in the previous pages that the show would be "kind of" ruined if it weren't very historically accurate. Those posts I find silly, and I felt like posting that we really don't know every exact event in history, the truth isn't always known, therefore those people who will find the show ruined if it sways from what we think is history should just sit back and enjoy it for what it's worth. In my personal opinion, it's the best damn show HBO has put out in awhile.

[Violentilla]

You are of course entitled to your opinion regarding a previous post insinuating such a thing, though reading back through I can find no one saying anything remotely similar to that about about the show -- in fact most have praised HBO for doing their best to make it as accurate as possible, while still making a storyline worth tuning in for.

 

I suppose I am also entitled to the opinion that your previous post comes off as self-righteous and condescending to the folks on this thread, who have pretty much all said that they enjoy watching the show, and also enjoy the study of the historical events brought up by the program. I for one was a little miffed that you found the need to tell us you were displeased as your very first post, and to be honest, reading that post a second time has not changed that feeling for me at all. While tone and inflection cannot be related through type, I still found what you said to be of an inflammatory nature.

 

So, I will no longer reply in this thread to your posts, because I don't want to be kicked from the boards over something so trivial. I would urge you, however, to reread things before you post them--what you see as being wise words may just be you coming off as pompous and baiting argument.

[Favonius Cornelius]

'Rome' where are my legions?!?!

 

*Storms around palace in grief*

[Caesar's 10th]

You are of course entitled to your opinion regarding a previous post insinuating such a thing, though reading back through I can find no one saying anything remotely similar to that about about the show -- in fact most have praised HBO for doing their best to make it as accurate as possible, while still making a storyline worth tuning in for.

 

I suppose I am also entitled to the opinion that your previous post comes off as self-righteous and condescending to the folks on this thread, who have pretty much all said that they enjoy watching the show, and also enjoy the study of the historical events brought up by the program. I for one was a little miffed that you found the need to tell us you were displeased as your very first post, and to be honest, reading that post a second time has not changed that feeling for me at all. While tone and inflection cannot be related through type, I still found what you said to be of an inflammatory nature.

 

So, I will no longer reply in this thread to your posts, because I don't want to be kicked from the boards over something so trivial. I would urge you, however, to reread things before you post them--what you see as being wise words may just be you coming off as pompous and baiting argument.

 

I read back through and found several instances but I will not copy and paste them to show proof of my point because I do not want to further alienate any other people who post regularly. I will from this point on start over and ignore previous posts.

 

Was everyone as disappointed as I was that they didn't show more of an actual battle at Pharsalus. I was looking forward to some battle scenes. However, I would imagine the cost to organize and film even parts of a battle would be too costly even for HBO.

[Primus Pilus]

I'm still having trouble understanding how people shouldn't discuss the show in a historical context, especially when some things are portrayed in way that is known to be ahistorical. One doesn't have to have lived in the time to have read the words of those who did, and understand the general truth of some situations. For example, we know that Cato was in Africa when Pompey was battling Caesar in Greece. The show puts him with Pompey and we know its wrong, and its ok to point it out, even though I still respect the job HBO has done. (both historically and in terms of entertainment value)

 

I personally prefer that historical gaffs, embellishments and/or edits for the sake of time constraint and entertainment value be pointed out for people who may not know, or wish to learn more.

 

Now back to show... I was disappointed in the latest episode that the battle of Pharsalus was so largely ignored. Perhaps one of the most important battles in western world history could have received a bit more attention, in my opinion. I am also still disappointed in Caesar's apparant lack of motivation or personal will, though I did fully enjoy the scene with Cicero and Brutus 'surrendering'. The acting of Antony's character is still remarkable in my opinion. From everything we know and understand of Antony, this characterization could not be any more dead on, IMO.

 

The 'trist' between Octavia and Servilia seems out of place, not because of the nature of the relationship in Republican times, but it seemed to me that both actresses were quite uncomfortable. Fortunately it was largely an implied scene and not presented in any great detail.

 

As for the death of Pompey: while I was suprised how quickly this chain of events was presented, it was wonderfully done. I think now that the show is moving quickly enough for the first season to definately end with Caesar's assassination.

 

The good thing is... 7 or 8 episodes in (or whatever it is) I am still glued to the TV on Sunday night.

 

Next episode Cleopatra. I missed the 'coming next week' part so I will just assume she will be beautiful. It may be slightly off from what we know of ancient images, but don't we all prefer it that way, both men and women.

[Violentilla]

I am looking forward to what they do with Cleopatra, I only caught bits of the tease scenes for next week. I admire her historically, let's see how they portray her in the series.

 

I thought the tense lesbian scene should have gone longer actually. They've had no trouble showing heterosexual scenes, I felt they copped out a bit on the girl-girl visuals. No matter, the husband was happy, and I think it makes the story interesting, and I wonder how Atia and her daughter will interact now.

 

I missed exactly how Vorenus left the camp of Pompey, I only saw him reporting to Caesar. Was it as he said, or did he strike a deal with Pompey?

 

I will watch the rebroadcast on Tuesday, but right now I'm puzzled.

[Primus Pilus]

Allow me to clarify... I was not opposed to the lesbian sex scene as a matter of some sort of personal morality. I just didn't think it went off real well, even though the sexual tension was quite obvious.

 

Vorenus let Pompey go in part just as he described to Caesar, because Pompey was broken, but he left out the secret part about him respecting Pompey and the 'Republican' cause. There was no secret deal. Vorenus simply left Pompey to his own devices with Pollo arguing against it.

[Violentilla]

Oh, I didn't think you were anti-lesbian, LOL. I felt it was tense because the situation was. I mean even though sexuality was seen differently, certainly their social status and age difference would make their coupling a bit nervous, so I didn't see it as the actresses' not being comfortable. I'm glad they didn't look too comfortable with one another, it would have reminded me of modern *or*. I just felt that as they've been so open with other sexual scenes, why clip this one so short? Maybe they will revisit their relationship later on.

 

That makes sense with the Vorenus character, thanks.

[Denec]

I enjoyed this episode very much so.

 

I was a bit dissapointed that they did not show more of the battle scenes. My only guess the reason they cut it out was due to high costs of battle scenes. It is just a guess.

 

Not entirely sure why the cut most of the scene between Servila and Octavia. HBO is definitely not afraid to show controversial sex scenes, for example in OZ showing male to male.

 

I did notice the episode ran the entire 1 hour, and maybe thye decided to edit that part to save time.

[Moonlapse]

I was anticipating some more great authentic Roman fighting, but no... a blurry slow-mo montage.

[Favonius Cornelius]

I was anticipating some more great authentic Roman fighting, but no... a blurry slow-mo montage.

 

The quintessential cop-out for battle scenes. Someone somewhere should start a group that specializes in quality large scale battle scenes for smaller budgets. I mean if you focus on it and make it an expertise, then you should be able to do it for less cost than going at it new. Course, those lame-ass Hollywood types probably also think that their blurred, epileptic cinematography is 'artistic' or something.

 

Crucify them.

[Virgil61]

Finally,got episode five and six downloading now,im sooo looking forward to watching them

 

 

I'm disappointed with the lack of any real battle sequences at Pharsalus, not that they needed to be epic in scale, but at least something along the lines of the opening scenes of the series. They did wrap Pompey's role up rather quickly.

[Primus Pilus]

At least its pretty much a consensus opinion on the missing 'Pharsalus'.

[Plautus]

Yeah. It does look like they went for cheap on the battle. If you get the special edition DVD of ELizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra, in the accompanying documentary it mentions that the shots of Rex Harrison as Caesar at Pharsalus were shot as an after thought. Director Joe Mankewicz had shot so much of the drama in small rooms there was no budget left for the battle scenes. Fox Studio head Daryl Zanuck was annoyed that he had a spectacle film with no spectacle outside of the entrance scene of Cleo to Rome. So he ordered the additional big scenes filmed.

It's surprising also because one of Rome's producer-writers Johm Milius, loves a good battle scene. HIs credits include Apocalypse Now, the Wind and the Lion and Conan the Barbarian.

[Skarr]

A single battle scene to be shown for a few minutes in one episode out of 12 would be quite an expense, I would imagine. Perhaps a small scale battle (shown through a memory of one of the soldiers) would probably cut the costs a bit but still, you would have viewers still complaining about the 'lack of spectacle'.

 

I think bringing "Rome" to the small screen is as much a challenge as to the big one, as the costs have skyrocketed since the days of Ben Hur. Insurance costs more than the actual sums paid to the extras needed and in the end, there is a huge cost to mount such a scene and later, enhance it with CGI.

 

I do hope Season 1 does really well and if they make a ton of money, perhaps they may stage some of the sea battles between Octavian and Antony. I think that would be good to watch, particularly the final battle at Actium.