Favonius Cornelius Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 As some of you may know, I am a big fan of the Roma Victor game, and in preparation for the eventual release of the game I have formed a guild of friends as have others. My guild I call 'House Cornelius.' Another guild has the name 'House Valerii.' They seem to insist that it is the more proper way of spelling the name, with the ii rather than the ius. I figure we are both right. There is only one Cornelius in the House and he is the patron thus House Cornelius, however there are many Valerii in House Valerii. It is the difference of saying the House of Johnson or the House of Johnsons correct? Is there any strick sense where one or the other would be grammatically incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Valerius Scerio Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 You are technically wrong. If you look at the English example you gave, "House of Johnson", not "House Johnson". The -i instead of -us denotes the genitive. In Latin, it would be literally Domus Cornelii (House of Cornelius). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted February 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 (edited) But couldn't you just assume the 'of?' I could give another example by saying Johnson Family, which is the same as saying House Cornelius or the Cornelius House? The Cornelius family. When you use an English word and a latin word togeather anyway, can you not choose the declension? Edited February 5, 2006 by Favonius Cornelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 But, exactly where does the "House of..." come from in the first place? A Roman would have identified himself in a social and religious sense with his clan, gens. Caesar was part of the gens Julius, for example. But the political function of the clans was vestigial after the dawn of the Republic, and they were mostly a social and religious club. To say "House of ..." seems more like English aristocrats than Romans. The Houses of York and Lancaster, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 (edited) Oh its nothing at all. Scerio just likes to be 'technical.' Just say gens Cornelii or Cornelii and its fine. Say that to a Roman they would know who it is no matter what. The 'house of' thing is just getting too technical in English grammar or rather lit. Edited February 5, 2006 by FLavius Valerius Constantinus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Valerius Scerio Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 (edited) Constantinus - but he's saying that it's ok to use "House Cornelius" and you're saying that it's not still. If you want Cornelius as a Latin word still, then use proper English: House of Cornelius. Edited February 5, 2006 by Q Valerius Scerio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Constantinus - but he's saying that it's ok to use "House Cornelius" and you're saying that it's not still. If you want Cornelius as a Latin word still, then use proper English: House of Cornelius. I didn't mean that he shouldn't use it. Just saying no need for complication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted February 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Thanks for the advice everyone! To say "House of ..." seems more like English aristocrats than Romans. The Houses of York and Lancaster, etc. Indeed! Roma Victor has a number of different kinds of guild groups: Cult, Legion, Auxiliary legion, and House. RedBedlam being an English company which is producing this game, I guess it's not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dalby Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Thanks for the advice everyone! To say "House of ..." seems more like English aristocrats than Romans. The Houses of York and Lancaster, etc. Indeed! Roma Victor has a number of different kinds of guild groups: Cult, Legion, Auxiliary legion, and House. RedBedlam being an English company which is producing this game, I guess it's not surprising. It's curious that English and French handle this in opposite ways. In English you say: the Smiths (meaning the family whose surname is Smith). In French you say: les Martin (meaning the family whose surname is Martin). You don't add an s for the plural of surnames, although with normal French words, you do. I would certainly say 'the Julii' or 'the Julian house'. I will now ask a French neighbour what he would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Calpurnius Capitolinus Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 The Ecce Romani teaching text centers around a Roman family called the Cornelians. The house is called "villa Corneliana" which uses an adjectival form of "Cornelius" in order to modify "villa." "Domus Corneliana" would work as well. Basically, if you are not going to use the Latin word for house, there is no need to use proper Latin for Cornelians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted February 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Wow another option too, thanks Lucius! House Cornelius House of Cornelius House Cornelii Domus Cornelii Villa Corneliana Domus Corneliana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Valerius Scerio Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I would actually favor Villa Corneliana (knowing full well that it doesn't mean "house" but estate). Even better, you could do as the Romans did and just do "Corneliani" (the Cornelians) or "Cornelii" (of Cornelius). IIRC, neither domus nor villa were actually used to represent the family of a gens. The Ecce Romani teaching text centers around a Roman family called the Cornelians. The house is called "villa Corneliana" which uses an adjectival form of "Cornelius" in order to modify "villa." "Domus Corneliana" would work as well. Basically, if you are not going to use the Latin word for house, there is no need to use proper Latin for Cornelians. By the way - you're using Ecce Romani? How far have you progressed? That was the book I used when I first started off. I still have the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I would actually favor Villa Corneliana (knowing full well that it doesn't mean "house" but estate). Even better, you could do as the Romans did and just do "Corneliani" (the Cornelians) or "Cornelii" (of Cornelius). IIRC, neither domus nor villa were actually used to represent the family of a gens. The Ecce Romani teaching text centers around a Roman family called the Cornelians. The house is called "villa Corneliana" which uses an adjectival form of "Cornelius" in order to modify "villa." "Domus Corneliana" would work as well. Basically, if you are not going to use the Latin word for house, there is no need to use proper Latin for Cornelians. By the way - you're using Ecce Romani? How far have you progressed? That was the book I used when I first started off. I still have the series. *Cough* Capitolinus is a 'Latin' teacher, he just teaches it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q Valerius Scerio Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) Eheu! Mihi ignosce, mi amice! Drats, I wish I kept my list of errors that I made while using the book. If you do not mind, who do you normally teach? Pre-high school? High school? College? American? European? If American, any affiliation with the ACL? Edited February 15, 2006 by Q Valerius Scerio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Calpurnius Capitolinus Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I am a member of the ACL. I teach middle and high school Latin (ages 12-18). Ecce is not an ideal text but it gets the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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