The Origin Of The Berbers ?

[athenian1977]

?Does anybody knows?

[Zurawski]

I always thought they were just Numidians after the effects of time and trade?

[athenian1977]

Well that's a possibility too , I thought Numidians were more west .

 

I'm not sure at all that's why I've posted this question !

 

Thanks

[Zurawski]

You could be right i guess i have just always assumed that they were numidians.

[Primus Pilus]

You could be right i guess i have just always assumed that they were numidians.

 

Yes, Numidians were Berbers, but Berbers are more than just Numidians. They occupied much of Northern Africa.

 

A good introduction courtesty of wiki

[Rameses the Great]

All of the North African countries except Egypt are Berber.

[Andrew Dalby]

The origin of the Berbers? Does anybody know?

 

There is a certain language family, almost as numerous as the Indo-European family and traceable a bit further back in time, called Afroasiatic (an older alternative name, still often used, is Hamito-Semitic).

 

It looks as though proto-Afroasiatic was spoken, ten thousand or more likely fifteen thousand years ago, somewhere around the Horn of Africa (northeast Africa, Kenya/Somalia/Ethiopia). These languages spread gradually westwards, and, in the path of this slow movement, offshoots or subgroups of Afroasiatic can be traced: Nilotic and Omotic languages in southern Ethiopia and Sudan, Chadic languages in Chad and northern Nigeria (Hausa, a major language of Nigeria, is one of these) ... Then, still many thousands of years ago, some speakers must have moved north across what is now the Sahara, and the next traceable offshoot is the group of languages now called Berber, which, as Rameses said above, is spoken across north Africa from the western oases of Egypt all the way to Morocco and Mauritania. And, by the way, the modern Berber languages are the same in origin as the Libyan and Numidian language(s) of the Roman period.

 

To finish the story, the next significant move was westwards again, and therefore the next offshoot of this language family is ancient Egyptian (the parent of Coptic, spoken in Egypt until modern times). The last major offshoot is the Semitic languages, including Assyrian (Akkadian), Arabic, Phoenician, Hebrew and Aramaic. And, to round off the circle, an offshoot of Semitic was taken south again by a much later migration, which is why Amharic, Tigrinya and other languages of central and northern Ethiopia are Semitic languages too.

 

I do languages -- I leave DNA and archaeology to others. But clearly some very long term migrations followed the route that I've sketched out here. It has been said by some that the proto-Berber-pre-Egyptian-prepre-Semitic group, gradually migrating north across the Sahara maybe about 7000 BC, were the first people to domesticate cattle. Others dispute it.

[Pantagathus]

I do languages -- I leave DNA and archaeology to others.

 

As for the DNA:

 

Y-Chromosome Haplogroup M168 ('Adam' Ethiopia/Somolia) ---->

Y-Chromosome Haplogroup 'F', M89 (Paleolithic 'grassland hunters' spread to N.Africa & Middle East) ---->

Y-Chromosome Haplogroup 'J', 12F2.1 (~Berbers) & Haplogroup 'J', M172 ("Neolithic Farmers", ~Semitics)

[julieboy]

Would Libya's present leader Khadafi be someone who looks like he is from Berber or Numidian descent?Asking the question because one time he was quoted as saying something to effect of Libyans not being Arabs but rather of African descent.

 

How different in appearance were the ancient inhabitants of Rome from the Berbers?

 

 

Finally if not Berbers then what would the ancient Eqyptians have been considered.Could they have possibly Arabs or Greeks ?

 

Were Cretens descended from the Greeks?

[Rameses the Great]

Finally if not Berbers then what would the ancient Eqyptians have been considered.Could they have possibly Arabs or Greeks ?

 

Were Cretens descended from the Greeks?

 

Egyptians look more Greek than Arab. There is a distinct difference. The Arabs tend to have very dark skin. The Arabs were more the equivelent of India, while Greece, Egypt, Phoenecia can be tied together. The Arab culture spread through Islam around 430 A.D. The ancient Egyptians were called Copt in Greek meaning, 'the original Egyptians.'

 

Crete were the descendants of Greece and Egypt. If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask me, I am a Copt.

 

P.S. Berbers were Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Moracco. In Arabic berber means, 'barbarian.' Also referred by the Americans later on as the Barbery States. Never including Egypt.

[AEGYPTUS]

Were Cretens descended from the Greeks?

 

Julieboy I believe it was probably the other way around Crete. (Minoan) civilization was flourishing a good while before Mycenaean Greece took of so to speak. The people slowly moved from Crete across the cyclades (small islands) island hoping and then finally arrived and settled on the Peloponnesian penisula. So it is more likely that the Greeks were descendents of The Minoans of Crete.

Edited May 20, 2006 by AEGYPTUS

[Pantagathus]

So it is more likely that the Greeks were descendents of The Minoans of Crete.

 

Hmmm, more like the Pelasgic Greeks & Minoans came from the same stock. Hellenic Greeks are more than likely another story...