Andrew Dalby Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 If my memory serves me, corked wine is a relatively new phenomenon. Post 1600's? If Roman wine wasn't corked it may have been a drink totally different from what we think of as wine. This is new to me. So what did people use before 1600? Screw top seems so cheap. It would be nice though not to have to worry about getting the annoying paper wrap off the top or those little cork particles in your wine sometimes. I don't like a screw top for wine. Yet, for some reason, it seems quite acceptable on a bottle of Jack Daniel's. The cork idea, as we now know it, rather depends on machine-made bottles and machine-cut corks. Without that, you are much less certain of an adequate seal. Hence, before industrial times, it was generally necessary to help the seal with resin or sealing-wax. My guess is that the modern foil or plastic capsule (capsule is the French word for it, I don't know what the English word is!) is a sort of memory of the old-fashioned resin or wax sealing. I used to buy a Moldavian wine that had sealing-wax over the cork, and there is still at least one grower in Cahors (France) who bottles his wine with a red wax seal over the cork. My belief (on this very limited sample) is that the wine ages more slowly, and with slightly different results, when sealed in this way: whether this is good or bad depends on you and the wine. However, if this would also hold true of wine in amphoras closed with a bung and sealed with wax or resin, it might just help to explain why so many Italian wines, in Roman times, were said by connoisseurs like Galen and Pliny to be at their best after ten, fifteen, twenty or twenty-five years. That would demand really first-rate keeping conditions. If anyone wants to finance some long-term research in this area, I'm in the market ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted April 10, 2006 Report Share Posted April 10, 2006 Pertinax, that thread is a gem. I wish that there were one forum where this subject could be posted on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?act=mo...&cmd=si&img=666 and here are some oyster picks recovered from Vindolanda-not the best of photos due to the reflective glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 It saddens me to have to report a possible wine heresy! Some exceptionally expensive restaurant in NYC (Daniele's) is serving wine from a bag! As the wine is extruded, no air gets into the bag thus keeping the wine fresh and tasty, if one does not do the proper thing right away. Can keep for weeks! It seems that if a cork is not of the highest quality, it will kill wine. Something about wine in boxes not being too bad! Oh, Lord Bacchus, what is this world coming to? What would the Romans think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 (edited) I suspect theyd admire some of our technologies (railways, self propelled artillery) scorned others (WCs that have to be flushed) and derided our style (pre-mixed shots , unplucked nostrils, wine boxes). edit: I have come across a vindolanda entry relating to "bottom end " of the social scale in wine drinking , namely expenses for faex or wine-lees as I understand this to mean.These expenses for a cheap drink are included in the various costs of a journey through the province including costs for lodging and fixing damaged wagon axles en route. Edited April 11, 2006 by Pertinax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Oh, Lord Bacchus, what is this world coming to? What would the Romans think! Go back one page and see my link to the culleus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 The great difference is the natural material used by our thoughtful ancestors-and a proper appreciation of a decent measure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 (edited) Pentagathus, I misbegot that picture! Of course, I should have known, the Romans did it first! Sorry! Sorry! Docoflove, you can add the wine bag and the Latin alphabet to your by-line. Just try writing with those Greek or Cyrillic glyphs if you are left handed. You are driving me coo-coo trying to think of things to add. Edited April 11, 2006 by Gaius Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 Pantagathus, I misbegot that picture! Of course, I should have known, the Romans did it first! I would like to add that the modern wine bladder (with box removed) is the perfect companion on a deep country backpacking trip! Once again, the Romans of course thought of it first... as the culleus was intented for travel. Now of course Fanzia will do if in a store that only offers that but I would recommend the 'Black Box' if available. ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Docoflove, you can add the wine bag and the Latin alphabet to your by-line. Just try writing with those Greek or Cyrillic glyphs if you are left handed.You are driving me coo-coo trying to think of things to add. Only if John Cleese approves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I'd like to report that my campaign to try more obscure wines from southern Italy has enligtened me to a fabulous inexpensive find from Puglia (I think) If I could remember what the heck the name of the winery was or even the variety, I'd say so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I'd like to report that my campaign to try more obscure wines from southern Italy has enligtened me to a fabulous inexpensive find from Puglia (I think) If I could remember what the heck the name of the winery was or even the variety, I'd say so That post can reasonably be described as "tantalising" in the truest sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 (edited) That post can reasonably be described as "tantalising" in the truest sense. Luckily I have an extra bottle on the rack at home... I will post details later. It was $9.99 but tastes like a $30+ bottle. Perfect balance between fruity sweetness and dry earthiness (tanins), color was clear and gorgeous, not thin but not too dank like a cloy merlot. One of the best reds that has touched my palate in quite a while. EDIT: Ok, it's later. Pugila was right, and the wine was the 2004 Sarrocco from Torre Dei Gesuiti Edited June 1, 2006 by Pantagathus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 It has come to my attention that a contest was held, 30 years ago, between French and Californian wines. Kali4kneeya won. The French said: "Well, how will these wines hold up 30 years from now?" Thirty years have elapsed and the wine was checked out again. California won again! We may conclude that the price of Cali juice will now ferment to the top. My latest discovery is a Cali burgandy by Livingston. Seven dollars for 3 liters. I can't get my hands on any white Falerno unless I buy a case. No chance of that happening until Christmas when I give my many quacks a gift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 My latest discovery is a Cali burgandy by Livingston. Seven dollars for 3 liters. Oh la la! ^_^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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