Tablet mentioning Masada's destroyer discovered

[Primus Pilus]

In 73 CE, the Roman governor of Judea, Flavius Silva, laid siege to Masada with Legion X Fretensis. When the walls were broken down by a battering ram, the Romans found the fortress' defenders had set fire to all the structures and preferred mass suicide to captivity or defeat. Masada has since become part of Jewish mythology, as has the name Silva, who Josephus Flavius mentions in his writings. It is therefore no great surprise that Hungarian archaeologist Dr. Tibor Grull, studying in Israel three years ago, was excited to discover a stone tablet during a visit to the Temple Mount with a Latin inscription of the name of Masada's destroyer...

 

Haaretz.com

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

:wub: Thank you PP. This I follow this story and it will help my Masada project.

[Arminius]

They mention that the tablet memorializes the victory - does that imply that there wasn't a mass suicide?

 

Like many, I am skeptical of the suicide account. Outside of what Jospehus has to say, I don't believe you can find any examples of Jews committing mass suicide anywhere. I know of one example of a Jew committing suicide in their written history, where a certain Saul, about to be captured by the hated Philistines, took his own life instead. I believe he'd been injured in battle but I'm not certain of the details.

 

Jospehus seems to be a Jewish traitor of the highest order. I've wondered if he maybe didn't feel guilty about this and wrote about Masada as a mass-suicide to cover up the massacre (although I'm not sure Romans around the empire would have really been botherd by it) and to make the Jews look more honorable in the eyes of Romans, who I understand generally held the Jews in very low esteem following the revolt.

 

I wonder if any of you have had similar thoughts?

Edited December 1, 2006 by Arminius

[DecimusCaesar]

An interesting discovery; sadly though, everyone who has posted on that website don't seem to care about tit too much. Instead the whole thing has descended into an Israel/Palestine argument. What will become of this tablet?

[Antiochus of Seleucia]

They mention that the tablet memorializes the victory - does that imply that there wasn't a mass suicide?

That was my thought exact.

Like many, I am skeptical of the suicide account.

 

Remember, he also writes of mass suicide at Jotapa- which he escaped from. Perhaps one mass suicide is believable but two goes too far.

[Callaecus]

They mention that the tablet memorializes the victory - does that imply that there wasn't a mass suicide?

As far as I know, the occupation of Masada was a victory, with or without mass suicide.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

You know I too am inclined to be sceptical about the mass suicide, but on the other hand, what motive would Josephus have had to lie about the event?

[Caesar CXXXVII]

You know I too am inclined to be sceptical about the mass suicide, but on the other hand, what motive would Josephus have had to lie about the event?

 

 

To show that the Jews were heroic as the Romans , it was a pure propoganda but the possibility for mass suicide exists (1 to 10 %) .

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

I would have thought Josephus would try to give the rebels a bad name just like he always did in the rest of his work . I suppose that showing them as having committed suicide, which incidentally is a heinous sin in Judaism, would have served such a purpose. I suppose we all will have to defer our judgments until something more substantial is unearthed.

[Caesar CXXXVII]

I would have thought Josephus would try to give the rebels a bad name just like he always did in the rest of his work . I suppose that showing them as having committed suicide, which incidentally is a heinous sin in Judaism, would have served such a purpose. I suppose we all will have to defer our judgments until something more substantial is unearthed.

 

 

One example - "What Josephus has to say about the suicide is that after the Romans entered Masada and discovered the dead bodies: "Nor could they [the Romans] do other than wonder at the courage of their [the Sicarii] resolution, and at the immovable contempt of death which so great a number of them had shown, when they went through with such an action as that was"

...

"The absolute resolution and courage of the Sicarii and their act of collective suicide in Masada raised, apparently, much respect and wonder among the Romans and in Josephus Flavius.

...

"After all, the heroism in the Masada narrative and in the context is not at all self evident or understood.

...

"Three main elements from Josephus' historical account are, more or less, kept in the mythical narrative. These are:

The Jewish rebels who took part in the Great Revolt against the Roman Empire found themselves at the end of the rebellion on Masada

The Roman imperial army launched a siege on the mountain in order to conquer the place and capture the rebels

When the rebels realized that there was no more hope of either winning or holding out against the Roman army, they chose to kill themselves rather than surrender and become wretched slaves.

These details can be found in nearly all forms of the mythical narrative, both written and oral. Viewed in this manner, it is indeed easy to be impressed with the heroism of the rebels on top of Masada."

 

Nachman Ben-Yehuda

Department of Sociology and Anthropology

Hebrew University, Jerusalem

 

Josephus was first of all , a Jew , he tried his best to show that his People were hero's as any "patriotic" historian would do . Yes , he gave the rebels a bad name but just because he was a patriot who did not want to see his People vanish , But if they did , they would do it with style , Graeco-Roman style . The Jews became a "freedom or death" People and the Romans became a nation that conquered such fearsome People . That is the concept .

Edited January 22, 2007 by Caesar CXXXVII

[Gaius Octavius]

I am not sure that Masada, in and of itself, was of any great import to the Romans. It was subdued to teach other people a lesson - don't fool around with Rome!

 

If I am not in error, the Israeli army no longer swears in its recruits on Masada. Perhaps the reason is that Masada is not a good example for soldiers.

[Caesar CXXXVII]

I am not sure that Masada, in and of itself, was of any great import to the Romans. It was subdued to teach other people a lesson - don't fool around with Rome!

 

 

Correct . But , think about it , some 6,000 to 7,000 Romans and allies spending a year or so to take a hill...Silva got a Consulship for that...

 

 

If I am not in error, the Israeli army no longer swears in its recruits on Masada. Perhaps the reason is that Masada is not a good example for soldiers.

 

Correct . But I would add "the mith of Massada" .

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

So I suppose a more probable scenario is that Silva's troops simply took Masada and put everyone to the sword the old fashioned way?

[Primus Pilus]

So I suppose a more probable scenario is that Silva's troops simply took Masada and put everyone to the sword the old fashioned way?

 

Unlikely, the Romans would've willingly admitted to killing everyone inside or selling them into slavery.

 

An excellent article on the viability of Josephus and the Masada story.

[Gladius Hispaniensis]

Good article Primus Pilus. Thanks for posting it