roman wargamer

January 3, 2007

The Comitia Curiata was established c. 625 BCE
The Comitia Centuriata was established c. 550 BCE

it takes 75 years to pass before the creation of centuriata.

the curiata have quasi-sovereign personality as representative of the people of each tribe.

they hold the right to conferred the imperium to the elected king... it belong only to them.

which centuriata do not have nor historical records say's they never ever exercise.

Than , you have the Comitia Tributa , c. 550 BCE by Tullius - That is the "Plebeian assembly" .

if you are claiming that the plebian do not exist until 550 bce...

and only when the comitia tributa was created.

then i strongly disagree on that matters.

"Servian reforms"

it was a way to aviod being needed to be elected by curiata to become legal king.

they use the army or centuriata to hold to kingship without the imperium.

December 31, 2006

//===================================================//

The Scipio Family in the Punic Wars

"i research this article due to my confusion on the Scipio name and or person"

roman wargamer

1st Punic War

260 consul Cn.Cornelius Scipio

lost 17 ship of Lipan Island

2nd Punic War

218-201

after the assination of Hasdrubal

Hnnibal succeded the throne

219 he destroyed Saguntum

218 he executed a daring march with 26,000 troops

consul P.Cornelius Scipio reach Marseilles to late

he therefore sent his brother to Spain

Cnaeus Scipio with most of the fleet.

Hannibal win at Ticinus, P. Cornelius Scipio lost

Hannibal win at Trebia,consul Sempronius Longus lost

217 Hannibal cross Appennines

west of two new Roman army

posted at Ariminum and Arretimi

Hannibal win at Trasimene,consul Flaminus lost

Rome terrified appoint Dictator

Quintus Favius Maximus known as "the Delayer"

nickname Contator

216 Hannibal win at Cannae against

proconsul C. Terentius Varro "the escaper"

and proconsul M. Cladius Marcellus

86,000 legioner was annihilated

216 1st Nola

215 2nd Nola

214 3rd Nola

212 BC 1st Capua

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (Fulvius Flaccus, Appius Claudius)

212 BC Silarus

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (M. Centenius Pentula)

212 BC Herdonia

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (Gn. Flavius)

211 BC Syracuse

win Romans (M.Claudius Marcellus)

lost Syracusans

211 BC Upper Baetis

win Carthaginians (Hasdrubal)

lost Romans (Gnaeus and Publius Cornelius Scipio)

both was killed and drove the Romans into Ebro

211 BC Siege of Capua

210 BC Herdoinia

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (F. Centumalus)

210 BC Numistro

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (Marcellus)

210 P. Cornelius Scipio

son of the just died general

was given a proconsul power and was sent to Spain

and later known as Africanus

209 BC Asculum

win Carthaginians (Hannibal)

lost Romans (Marcellus)

208 BC Baecula

win Romans (P. Cornelius Scipio Africanus)

lost Carthaginians (Hasdrubal Barca)

207 BC Grumentum

*Draw* Romans (C.Claudius Nero)

*Draw* Carthaginians (Hannibal)

207 BC Metaurus

win Romans (C.Claudius Nero)

lost Carthaginians (Hasdrubal Barca)was killed

206 BC Ilipa

win Romans (P.Cornelius Scipio Africanus)

lost Carthaginians (Hasdrubal)

203 BC Bagbrades

win Romans (P.Cornelius Scipio Africanus)

lost Carthaginians (Hasdrubal/Syphax)

202 BC Zama

win Romans (P.Cornelius Scipio Africanus)

lost Carthaginians (Hannibal)

he escape

//==================================================//

260 consul Cn.Cornelius Scipio

lost 17 ship of Lipan Island

218 consul P.Cornelius Scipio

reach Marseilles to late

he therefore sent his brother to Spain

Cnaeus Scipio with most of the fleet.

210 P. Cornelius Scipio

son of the just died general

was given a proconsul power and was sent to Spain

and later known as Africanus

190 L. Cornelius Scipio

later known as Asiaticus

146 Aemilianus Scipio

in 211 both brother was killed in Spain

consul P.Cornelius Scipio and Cnaeus Scipio

and other Scipio???

//=================================================//

190

brother

P. Cornelius Scipio later known as Africanus

L. Cornelius Scipio later known as Asiaticus

at the Magnesia Battle near Smyrna , they win

agaisnt Antichus and obliged him

to surrender Hannibal to Rome

and give up all European and Asiatic possession

though the Carthage general escape

183 BCE

Hannibal poison himself

at the court of Prusias I of Bithynia

who was about to betray him to Rome.

December 31, 2006

actually at the foundation of Rome it is the plebian comitia.

the comitia curiata- the assembly of the elders of clan, big family and the richer family below the patres.

then, when do comitia centuriata only arise?

December 31, 2006

Yes! a Happy Happy New Year to All UNRV members.

December 30, 2006

In a sense, this debate was actually tested at the Battle of Agincourt.

then why the English did not conquered the French and won the war

if long bow was enough to win war.

I believe thats the way a legion would have operated against a similar foe.

normally a legio will not attack a defensive and encamped enemy...

they will first build a circumvallatio before the seige.. to encircle with defensive ramp the enemy first.

long bow and knight

long bow was not enough technique to win battle... it was never proven to win a war.

even crusaders knights succumn to Islamic warriors... that Romans defeated their ancient army many times.

December 30, 2006

I think that heavy cavalry has to be heavy , meaning armor, large horses,

even the best armour and the most thickest one will be penetrated by the metal spike of spear...

try to wear it and charge a wall of spear and you might possibly killed yourself in a test.

romans never had or met something similar with knights

wrong...in Trajan/Hadrian era; they already have conttarii and clibanarii-almost the same as knight armor.

J. Caesar have proven in Pharsalus that cavalry can be defeated in flank counter atatck.

cavalry or knight attack are deadly only as a second flanking counter attack while the

enemy front battle line are pin down.

Other units of non nobles could be highly proffesional like town militias

the Roman have an standing 300,000 militias that reach mostly 600,000 in Caesar era.

Poitiers, Crecy, Agincourt, Varna, Los Navas de Tolosa etc.

the English never conquered the French nor the French conquered the English.

but the Romans have conquered both the English and most of continental Europe.

speaking in military term for me... the Roman Organization will greatly help and an advantage.

but will never gurantee victory... as Hannibal have proven... military tactic and strategy will decides battles.

and if we are speaking about war... i am very sure the Italian Romanus Legiones will win the war.

December 29, 2006

Romans could not have infantry formations to fight heavy cavalry...

i beg your pardon... the Italian Romanus Legiones have one. the Battle Line Formation.

then try to imagine... if even the most heavy cavalry could penetrate...

a three segragated line and a contineous formation of long thrusting spear

this is the Roman Legiones standard military battle formation in Caesar era.

(only one cohortia is represented)

First Agmen or Battle Column

the Hastatus Battle Line Formation

______________________________________________________________________________

the prior in centurion line formation (first line)

basic weapon; scutum, hasta and gladius. amentata

[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...

the posterior in centurion line formation (second line)

basic weapon; scutum, hasta and gladius, amentata

[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...

the anteadstatus in supernumerary line (third line)could be move in front or rear of hastatus

basic weapon; koile, hastula and pugio, velitaris

O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...

________________________________________________________________________________

Secondus Agmen or Battle Column

the Prindeps Battle Line Formation

________________________________________________________________________________

the prior in centurion line formation (fourth line)

basic weapon; clipeus, hastae princeps and gladius. amentata

()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...

the posterior in centurion line formation (fifth line)

basic weapon; clipeus, hastae princeps and gladius. amentata

()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/..()/.()/.()/...

the anteprinceps in supernumerary line (sixth) could be move in front or rear of princeps

basic weapon; koile, hastula and pugio, velitaris

O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...

________________________________________________________________________________

seventh line

the Cohors Signeferi Centuria

________________________________________________________________________________

Third Agmen or Battle Column

the Triarii Battle Line Formation

________________________________________________________________________________

the prior in centurion line formation (eight line)

basic weapon; scutum, hastae triarius and gladius, martiobarbulus

[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...

the posterior in centurion line formation (ninth line)

basic weapon; scutum, hastae triarius and gladius, martiobarbulus

[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/..[]/.[]/.[]/...

the antetriarius in supernumerary line (tenth line) could be move in front or rear of triarii

basic weapon; koile, hastula and pugio, velitaris

O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...O/.O/.O/...

_________________________________________________________________________________

i claim copyright to this workguess on Roman Military Organizarional Structure and Formation.

Rad Adenir Dulay

December 25, 2006

Was there no Senate and senators during this period?

I did not find any scholar saying that there was no Senate in those times (Monarchy and Tyrany) .

The big question is what kind of a Senate ?

when Rome was founded they have 100 Patrician family who act as senate body or council of the state.

December 24, 2006

Cicero was a non-military man and so am I

my apology... i thought you are looking for a realistic ancient military battle game.

still why not try even only a little one playable on this trhread. a 3 square width X 9 square lenght.

it is exciting one as most pro players who tried it.

December 24, 2006

Because something is written in a book doesn't make it so.

i am not claiming it to be so... it is what an authoritative book scholar writer say so, not me.

it is just coincidence that Sol Invictus and December 25 christmas bear on the same coin.

cause they use the date for that holiday when facts directs that Jesus was born on summer.

for what ever their intent and reason will never be known to us.

but please this thread was about the Sun God of the ancient Roman Mithras cult.

i do not want it to closed, papal bull exsurge and tranferred to hell. Ursus had already warn me.

please mellow down or address christmas in right forum and proper topic..

December 22, 2006

Oh Dear! the supplies you need to feed your men and build siege engine have been cut off!
Such a pity Roman Wargamer that the 2000 men I left in Tripoly have cut off your supply lines to the sea!

I guess Im just full of surprises

then, if you are afraid to be defeated in a simple boardgame- i will play your thesis game.

as we have the same number of men of war- 10,000 men.

___________________________________________________________________________

you left 2,000 men to cut me off... let me see if that is a good idea.. i then begin my battle.

i immediately ordered my legiones council of war and all centurion commander for a battle plan.

we will do a "Nero Strategy" to elimanate all those 2,000 CiceroD men on our rear.

the Metaurus River Tactical Move technique will be very good to annihilate all those poor soldier.

i will march back my whole legio to those annoying rear enemy presence.

as we near to those 2,000 poor men.

the 9th and 10th cohortia detached to do an initial right flank attack.

and the 7th and 8th cohortia also detached to do an another left closing gap left flank attack.

as the 4 cohort close in to engage in my simultaneous two sides prong flank attack manuever.

my main body of 6 cohortia of Italian Legiones slowly march in the center to give a piece meal murder.

as your 2,000 poor men struggle to survive a swift 10,000 men Scipio Africanus Manuever.

i give order that all enemy men that resist will be killed immediately in the field, no mercy!!!

as my whole legio slowly murder those CiceroD soldier.

i am already contemplating to attacl Krak.

while CiceroD hide in a castle with two concentric walls on the top of a 650 meter cliff in the burning

Syrian desert!. He say's all the same I'm inside Krak des Chevaliers You cant get me.

i will get you with my Tenth Legio. you will become like Masada after i get you and your poor soldier.

December 20, 2006

I guess Im just full of surprises

if you are really full of surprises, then surprise me by defeating me this game.

did you really even tried to play a military wargame board.

then why not try this one... shall we. no dices; no cards and no tape measure needed.

Oh Dear! the supplies you need to feed your men and build siege engine have been cut off!
Such a pity Roman Wargamer that the 2000 men I left in Tripoly have cut off your supply lines to the sea!

i never know that Continental Europe in Middle Age have and possess ships that could be compare to

Roman navy in the era of Augustus.

could you explain to me why you hide in Syrian castle

and wasted all those logistic manpower, food and money just to run away from a legion seige.

December 16, 2006

Introduction

The Roman Wargame is on Military Wargame Model

In the boardgame of 9 X 9 square ..=81 square..

actual size is 18" X 18"

But with more than 100 player pieces...on the boardgame.

Each Player has its OWN Pre Determine Legion of Army Group

Playable by 2 people...and or Team Play of 4 to 8 person

Player ( A ) has a Regimental Size and Number of

player pieces .

SEE the Picture to have an OVER View and Catch the Concept

The game could be FINISH in 10 to 20 Minutes of Play Time.

The Player Pieces FOOT SOLDIER can Move

1 Square PER MOVE

In ANY and ALL point of direction

Front Forward...Diagonal Frontward MOVE to LEFT or Right..

To LEFT or Right Side Ward MOVE

Diagonal Back Ward MOVE to LEFT or Right..

and Rear Backward MOVE

All the KNIGHT and CHARIOT has the SAME MOVEMENT rule

Except that It Can MOVE a Maximum of 2 Square per Move.

ALL Player Pieces are Allowed not to MAKE Any Move at All.

It has many accessory Player Pieces...Like Battery

Ram...Catapult Ballista...Spear Ballista...Fire Wall...Fire

Mine...Phalanx Fence...ETC.

Every Player Pieces HAVE a Combat Value.

When they ATTACK...they have an Attack Plus Point System.

The Defense Plus Point are Use only by the ROMAN

Player Pieces with the Full Shield.

Combat Value + Attack/Defense... PPS = Total Combat

Value Equation / TCVE

If you Equal the TCVE of the Enemy..

on Combat Action Engagement... /CAE.

You WIN the Combat Action Engagement.

Means I USE New Formula.

And ALL the Player Pieces Can Be MOVE.

ALL at THE SAME TIME .

The simultaneous and realistic MOVES RULES.

The movement of wargame that are invented now is unique.

The PLAYER ...have a Real Time Move NO. ( ) Rule.

1 Regimental Moves composes of...4 to 5 Battalion Moves.

which have.......... 3 to 5 Comapany Moves...

which have...3 to 4 Individual Moves...

Total of almost More than 45 player pieces movement..

moving all at the same time

December 16, 2006

all the same I'm inside Krak des Chevaliers You cant get me
Its a castle with two concentric walls on the top of a 650 meter cliff in the burning Syrian desert!

do you remember the Masada. the Roman conquer it... and sold most Jew to slavery after that,

as warning to all the ancient world city state,kingdom and empire... that Rome can also be savage.

if you hide inside the castle, are an indication that your armies can not win in open battle.

but i thought you were in European castle, how come you hide there to escape a legion siege.

just all plain joke... for everything is all hypothesis, hope got it.

Huh this is useless Roman Wargamer neither of us would ever concede that we lose!

he! he! he!

what i am saying is a boardgame that we could play in this thread.

shall we try it, just for fun... i will send the rules.

it is name Roman Wargame III.

December 16, 2006

Since Sol Invictus and December 25 are being tossed around in this conversation,
would anyone care to comment on the theory that Christmas was favored by Constantine.

The feast of "Catholic Christmas" was invented in Rome

by a heretic name Artenon and first celebrated in Constantinople on 373 A.D. (p.47)

The New Shaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge

_____________________________________________________________________________

so christmas do not yet exist in Constantine era... nor known or celebrated until 373 circa.

it is a slow process of evolution as what is now know today...invented by heretic for Roman Holiday.

December 14, 2006

where are the High Middle Ages "main" armies of (King or General?) CiceroD.

my legiones men of war can not see them in the battlefield... where are they???

as the Roman Equites advance scout reports they are nowhere to be found nearby!!!

and waiting for the covert axulia intellegence men to report enemy number and disposition.

CiceroD take your action or i will siege your castle.

be brave to take an open field battle of your life... i am waiting.

December 13, 2006

Hypothetically would a Roman Army's internal cohesion be able to beat heavily armored knights? would the superior fortifications of castles confound legionary siegecraft?
(to be perfectly clear I'm assuming proffessional Augustan era legions against a Western European High Middle Ages pre-gunpowder army)

Fellow nerds chime in!

if you could move play those men of war in board; then let's play it. a ten thousand men.

the legio horn was sounded;

by then,(my) the Roman Legio was preparing for battle formation in 'triplex acies' quadratum form.

December 9, 2006

I don't think you know the church of the Byzantines or Orthodox for that matter.

it will be better if you could begin a topic about Byzantines or Orthodox church history.

by your direct experience and perspective, we can learn more of it's origin, tradition and belief.

hope you can give it a try.

December 2, 2006

The Council of Nicaea 325 A.D.

"The Council could not agree and after two years, impatient at the delay,

the Emperor Constantine appeared and addressed the assembly,

ordering them to agree on the divinity of Christ..."

page 60, Challenge of a Liberal Faith

Divus Emperor Constantine decreed godship to Jesus "The Christ" thereby making him god.

a Jewish from Nazareth who founded the first century christianity in Israel.

by 325 A.D. Jesus Christ was now officially god under the ancient Roman Universal Church.

But the overall church authority have been granted to the Roman Curiae and now belong to them.

By decree of Nicene Creed it created a new state religion and universal church.

just an emperor's whim? or a vision for a new Romanus Divus Invictus for Templum Romae?

and all eastern opposition; even Arius was declared heretics and subjects to state persecution.

in a simple "coup de grace" by Emperor Constantine, he repeated what Emperor Aurelian did in 275 A.D.

Emperor Aurelian have adopted Sol Invictus and the Mithras cult for the Roman empire.

as always... history repeat itself, but for the good of the empire and Roman peace.

and ending the stigma of chrisitian problem on their timeline.

making the Roman Curiae as the official agent of the state for the control of christian church.

and Rome make a landmark in the ancient world history by inventing a new universal church.

December 1, 2006

Cannae was the perfect embodiment of what is now known as the 'double envelopment'.
I advise you to study mechanized warfare on the Eastern Front during WWII and the executed

battle plan of Desert Storm.

have anybody tried "your left" counter attack flank envelopment against superior enemy.

it is very hard thing to do... what more if you will do it in two flanks.

Cannae is the first perfect example of double envelopment tactical success by an inferior rag tag army.

the "double envelopment" attack military masterpiece created by Hannibal will be remember forever.

it secured his placed in world military manuals even after Zama.

November 28, 2006

at last the Roman Curiae invented a new state and universal religion.

Are you saying this is a good thing?

it defends on timeline and point of view

if you are a member of the elite Patrician and a Romanus Senator in their time,

yes, it is the best solutions against the christians. for the pagan Roman Empire.

but for religious reason, today; it is a different things for me.

for you can never truly compare the pagan belief to true christianity.

November 28, 2006

Chistianity was never started by Jesus,

In the Gospel according to Matthew, Christ said;

"And I tell you...I will build my church...and the power of dearh shall not prevail against it."

Mt. 16:18 Bible

Constantine did it to get the Christians, who were oppressed & killed for many years, to fight for him.

they grab the church leadership under the very whims of Emperor Constatine imperial power.

so it is basically a novel idea... "if you can not deafeat them, joint them concept"

when the christian church could not be defeated by persecution and stop by constant massacre.

they change everything that it could no longer be compare with the pure and original Church of Christ.

after the Council of Nicaea, the western Roman Curiae emerge so trumphant that obliterated the

eastern group leadership in an emperor instigated christiam church leadership "coup d tat."

after this event...the persecuted church become the persecutor...killing all who oppose their leadership.

The eclipse of the true and original christian ( first century church ) was slowly and gradually dawned by

the new professing paganized and romanized christian under the Roman Curiae.

at last the Roman Curiae invented a new state and universal religion.

November 22, 2006

Sol Invictus

The rise of this pagan god rise with the Roman conquer of the known ancient world.

and was 'eclipse' only by the 'sunrise' of the new emerging western Romanized christianity.

after the Council of Nicea, the western Roman Curiae emerge so trumphant that obliterated the