sylla
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a DanaThis bust of Caracalla is going up for auction and is estimated to pull in about 250,000 pounds. It's popped up a number of times on the feeds and blogs that I track and, honestly, I think it's a terrific piece of work. It carries the weight of a sense of menace, power and emotion. This image alone makes me want to learn more about the Emperor. -
Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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As usual, your description is exact, Jason; a nice article and a beautiful image
The five-year plan also includes identifying and realising social and economic benefits that the site can bring to the local communities. According to Dr Nigel Mills, director of World Heritage and Access for Hadrian -
I meant available evidence.
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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I'm afraid that you are taking things too literally again
While not every remark on this site is intended to have every word analysed to death, there is nothing inconsistent in what I said in either posting. Admittedly a small part of my posting was in jest and if you don't 'get it' then I could say 'so be it' but to put you out of your misery:Don't worry; rest assured that if there is any misery here, it's not mine
There's no shame in admitting ignorance; no one of us is expected to know everything and there's no need to fabricate "several notable academics" when you weren't even aware of Prof. Curry's research to begin with (it seems you haven't even read her book yet!
).And of course, you can always try to begin expressing yourself literally in your own remarks... after all, that is the main goal of English and any other language. Trust me, that doesn't hurt
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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Easily available evidence overwhelmingly shows that gladiatorial games were immensely popular all across their long history.
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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I'm afraid I'm a bit confused
.I seem to remember that in previous posts (eg, those regarding the Codex Sinaiticus) you explained me the great archaeological value of virtually any ancient document,
Now, Ms. Curry and her team reportedly presented "fifty-odd pages of fiscal and administrative accounts relating to the battle, such as service indentures, pay accounts, letters written during the campaign, and the relatively recently-discovered French battle plan drawn up a week or two prior to the engagement".
I understand that at least some of such material was literally "removed from the ground".
Under your archaeological experience, can that research be dismissed as 'purely' historical?
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Thanks. That is the kind of evidence I was looking for.A quick look at the Ordnance Survey map of Roman Britain will show that there were no reserve units placed towards the rear, inland of the Saxon Shore forts. Absence of defense in depth? certainly. Additionally there were no roads joining them together as there were with those on earlier frontier systems. This may hint at lack of integration, although of course the sea could convey traffic. The whole system seems to have developed and grown over about 80 years as opposed to being a planned system of defences. There seems to be enough evidence, available at a glance, to back up Caldrail's hypothesis, which to me appears to stand up pretty well.All that said, my guess is that the definitive proof of the integration of any system is how it worked, especially under critical conditions.
Under Count Theodosius, the system was perfectly able to bring the new units from the Continent in time and to bring a massive number of invaders all the way back from Londinium to the Caledonian border in a matter of weeks.
That seems pretty integrated and functional to me, irrespectively of the time required for reaching such level of integration between land and naval units.
Of course, that doesn't imply that the system described by the Notitia Dignitatum was wholely planned in advance, if that is what you mean by "integrated".
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Have you read the Book?With possibly a bit more in the way of provable scientific research than the recent Agincourt re-analysis which was more of a paper based exerciseFrom the review of this book by Clifford J Rogers (U.S. Military Academy at West Point):
"... Curry has assembled, in translation, no fewer than twenty-six chroniclers
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70 miles?!? Your source is clearly utterly exaggerating; their statements don't resist simple inspection.
This is a very good point Sylla. However the relative precision of Waldseemullers North and South American west coasts should not have been known at the time. The map, when smoothed to account for perspective, is ridiculously close to correct. I just found one reference that says the map predicts the width of South America at certain latitudes to within 70 miles.However, some of the authors' statements seems to be a bit too farfetched; for example, geographers had already known for a long time that there was sea (ie. the Pacific Ocean) east to eastern Asia; if the recently discovered lands were to be considered a new continent and the Earth was indeed round, sea ought to be drawn between the land masses.Please take a second look of the "Pacific Coast" of South America in that map; it's just an irregular hyperbolic curve from the two continuously explored points by then (more or less from modern Rio de Janeiro to Nicaragua).
A "strait" was imagined instead of the actual isthmus of Central America... unsurprisingly, at the only unexplored sector of the Caribbean coast.
Besides, less than one third of the actual area of South America was drawn; the width is patently wrong!
The drawing of South America stops circa latitude 25
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a DanaFrom about.com:On this day in A.D. 312, the Roman Emperor Constantine was victorious in battle for control of the Western Roman Empire against the Roman Emperor Maxentius. The battle is known as the Battle at the Milvian Bridge, a stone bridge across the Tiber River. Constantine is said to have had a vision the preceding night telling him that he would win under a certain sign that included the appearance of a cross set against the sun and certain words in Greek that translate into Latin as: in hoc signo vinces 'you will win under this sign.' This sign and the following victory are credited with convincing Constantine to convert to Christianity, which he did, but not immediately.
Ah...that reminds me of this article/video I came across Monday. There's too much to distill in this message, but it spotlights some scientific explanations for Constantine's visionConstantine's dream before the battle in 312
And here's what's probably a very informative video...in French...which I don't speak:
La vision de Constantin en 312
Go to about 1:35 of the video. Um, it's a bit of a stretch.
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Another famous map called the Waldseemuller map is the first map to use the word America, was published in 1507, but appears to have a pretty distinct and correct (but skewed visually) presentation of the WEST coast of the Americas. Check the bottom left here:
http://www.umc.sunysb.edu/surgery/waldseemuller-loc-big.jpg
While there are arguments on both sides, pulling back to look at the bigger picture, it certainly feels like there's enough evidence in aggregate to presume that Christopher Columbus was not the first non-native-American to come across the Americas. Who and when specifically? It's impossible to tell. Either way, Columbus was the first to break the news to the world (though he still thought he'd found the Indies until the day he died).
Not that anyone asked, but I think these stories and myths around lost maps and previously undiscovered lands is fascinating and as technology improves, we'll find many modern historical facts exposed as mere myths.
There's one reference in here to the previously undiscovered American west coast, but it's a good overview of this famous map.
The map that changed the world
The map represented a remarkable number of historical firsts. In addition to giving America its name, it was also the first map to portray the New World as a separate continent - even though Columbus, Vespucci, and other early explorers would all insist until their dying day that they had reached the far-eastern limits of Asia.
The map was the first to suggest the existence of what explorer Ferdinand Magellan would later call the Pacific Ocean, a mysterious decision, in that Europeans, according to the standard history of New World discovery, aren't supposed to have learned about the Pacific until several years later.
Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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I would also add the caveat that in any such statisitical analysis there would normally be a set of assumptions published upon which the research has been based. However these are not normally considered 'news worthy' or else are considered by the press as liable to confuse the average reader so the press tend to cut them out of any articles published about the research findings.
To have any chance of understanding the basis of the research I am afraid that unless it has been published on-line it means that anyone interested in further reading will have to obtain access to a full copy of a report which may have only a limited publication run
Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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And I suppose you will be kind enough for sharing all your references with us, so we may be able to reach the same conclusions.That's all very well, but in the late empire of Roman Britain the older system of depth defense had been replaced. In effect, the coastal stations of the Saxon Shore were patrolling for incursions with limited support and with little integration at all.After all, as virtually no "maybes" and "ifs" were present in your long explanation, this should be something more than just mere personal unfounded speculation ...
You know, any argument ("speculation" if you like) is as valid as the evidence it is based on.
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Especially because children were rather well represented within the massive chattel slavery of the time.
All that said, it would be interesting to know which kind of laboral activities did Locke observe being done by 3 year-old children.
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Now, if new elements are required, we can always discuss on the only other possible textual mention of the Saxon Shore defensive system aside from the Notitia Dignitatum; the so-called "Great Conspiracy" narrated by Ammianus for 367-8.
Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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Latium antiquum a Tiberi Cerceios servatum est m. p. L longitudine: tam tenues primordio imperi fuere radices. colonis saepe mutatis tenuere alii aliis temporibus, Aborigenes, Pelasgi, Arcades, Siculi, Aurunci, Rutuli et ultra Cerceios Volsci, Osci, Ausones, unde nomen Lati processit ad Lirim amnem. in principio est Ostia colonia ab Romano rege deducta, oppidum Laurentum, lucus Iovis Indigetis, amnis Numicius, Ardea a Dana
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I'm sure the Romans and other ancient populations were more than able to use children as workforce, but frankly those footpints could have been there for any perfectly innocent explanation, let say an accident.
After all, I'm also sure that all of us have seen all kind of footprints in our urban cement floors.
The Saxon Shore Fort Network.
in Provincia Britannia
Posted
Our available evidence clearly shows that the Saxon Shore, the Hadrian's Wall and the whole British defensive system never ever "failed".
Britannia was just abandoned undefeated by Honorius, so he would be able to deal with other menaces; simple as that.
But that's just evidence; who cares?