[Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown]

I could argue the point of

'guess what (you won't believe it)'

but will accept you didn't mean it the way it looked.

You can argue all you want on what you look; have I cared for your best opinion, I would have directly adressed you (e.g. this post).

... simply the misleading representation of it on the link you supplied..

From Merriam-Webster (SIC): "mislead: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit... to lead astray : give a wrong impression".

 

The link I posted could hardly be considered "misleading", simply because it explicitly acknowledged its own limitations, as you were well aware (post #8 from this same thread) (SIC):

 

Pssibly the third paragraph should have been a giveaway to its 'accuracy':

 

'This map is not a carefully surveyed and extremely accurate presentation. It is intended to provide a visual impression of which geographic areas might be flooded if global warming and climate change continue unabated.

 

"Misleading" would have been deliberately ignoring such obvious fact, or even worse, trying to disguise with a red herring the evident fact that, under the ongoing trends and given enough time, Venice will one day vanish under the sea.

 

In any case, historically

[Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown]

Amazing as it may sound, as the sea level is rising globally (it's just one sea, after all)... guess what (you won't believe it)

[Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown]

Amazing as it may sound, as the sea level is rising globally (it's just one sea, after all)... guess what (you won't believe it)

[Elaborate Measures Keep King Tut Safe]

If you have the chance to see it, I highly recommend a visit. I hit the show in Philadelphia about two years ago and it's breathtaking.

Besides (SIC):

"... this five-year travelling show, which wraps up in two years, will be the final tour."

[Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown]

Here is a nice Map on the expected effect on Venice of the sea level rise from the ongoing global warming.

[Cannae]

Whilst the sources are flawed, simply no respected scholar or historian backs the claim to secret Punic victories. I can understand the notion, but firstly Rome was not at this time the superpower of later years. Carthage was her military equal and the most successful thalassocracy to be seen in the region.

 

Are we to doubt everything that we think we know about Carthaginian military practices, simply because our sources are Greek or Roman? You stated earlier that we can know practically nothing about Carthaginian military culture for this reason, but went on to state that they definitely had a deep military tradition. You simply can not know nothing of the former and be so definite of the the latter: it does not stand logical scrutiny.

There's no need to blindly or uncritically accept the statements of any source.

 

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[The odd relationship between Caesar]

What always puzzled me about his actions in Actium is why after the defeat in the naval battle he didn't try to make use to his Legions and preferred to fled to Egypt? he seem to just lose faith after Agrippa victory.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[The odd relationship between Caesar]

I agree that Antony should be judged primarily by his deeds rather than by hear-say. But I'm not sure even that evidence supports a positive appraisal of Antony's ability as a commander and statesman. Yes, when Antony had Caesar's veterans under his command, he didn't always lose. But a commander's ability has to be evaluated by his performance in all his roles -- logistics, tactics, and strategy. At Mutina and at Actium, Antony's command at logistics and strategy were shown to be middling at best.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Cleopatra's Lost Tomb]

Fine to combat contemporary examples of looting, when both sides are agreed it was "looting".

 

Not fine when Egypt or some other place unilaterally stretches the definition, then intimidates museums to accept it's terms or else face a cutoff of cherished activities. For a counter example, there is a reason for the legal concept of statute of limitation time periods. Things happened before under different mutual assumptions and with legal entities that don't exist anymore and can't be reconstructed correctly by contemporaries.

 

Western guardians of museum collections may be too happy to give lots away anyway, for that halo of political correctness. What suffers are museum goers (and taxpayers who probably fund their museums and have contributed to recent 28 billion $ foreign aid to Egypt).

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[The odd relationship between Caesar]

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Cicero's Involvement in Caesar's Assassination]

There's no doubt that Cicero had some form of bravery. I was merely commenting on another users comment that said that Cicero didn't act because he only spoke against Caesar, not acted against him. Personally, I find it hard to utter any positives about Cicero or the other conspirators. I am a loyal Ceasarion.

Offending post deleted

[Cannae]

Although I would agree that Polybius was "selling" Rome to the newly subject people of Greece, I can not accept that he was the crude propogandist that you consistently describe. You will recall how he views his main sources for this period as misleading and biased, Fabius Pictor as the Roman offender and Philinus of Agrigentum that of the Punic side.

 

If there had been another Punic victory, in a pitched battle, I do not see that Polybius would choose to not mention it, purely because that would not dilute his message or dent his objective.

 

Archaeology is a science that assists historical understanding. History is a humanity and the consensus belief is often based on the balance of probability.

I am not trying to explain here why Polybius acted as he did; the fallacy stands, and you haven't dealt with it.

 

Such a long war against a superpower like Rome can't be explained just by a couple of victories from the other side; at the risk of overstating the obvious, that would be plainly absurd; simple as that.

[Cicero's Involvement in Caesar's Assassination]

Whether Caesar was a tyrant or not is a subject for debate. However, I fail to understand how Cicero can be described as a coward so unequivocally!

Can't agree more; if facing a Catilina or a Clodius were not risky enough, Cicero's fiery Philippics were given against the most powerful Roman general of the time; guts were definitively needed for that.

And, the manner in which he died according to all sources, was overwhelmingly brave!

Now, such account might be admittedly suspicious, because it came mostly from pro-Augustan sources abusing Anthony; Octavius must be held at least as responsible as his fellow triumvires.

[Cicero's Involvement in Caesar's Assassination]

Caesar wasn't a tyrant. Cicero was a coward.

 

 

 

Would he have participated if asked?

 

His behavior afterwards suggests so. In a letter to Trebonius (one of those friends of Caesar who were so disgusted by the dictator's behavior that they joined the assassination), Cicero expressed regret that he hadn't been "invited to that superb banquet." Moreover, he worked tirelessly on behalf of the liberators, convincing the Senate to defend Decimus Brutus at Mutina, lobbying to get the Roman senate to recall Brutus and Cassius to Rome after they had left for Greece, and denouncing his son-in-law Dolabella for the murder of Trebonius.

 

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to talk about tyrannicide than to actually risk your life committing it. Yes, Cicero was as disgusted by Caesar as any other sane and decent human being, but he nonetheless showed very little actual fortitude when Caesar was waging his war on Rome. While Cato was tearing his guts out lest he share the same air as that bald darling of Venus, Cicero was at home fretting over how his ex-wife and current one were getting along.

Whether Caesar was a tyrant or not is a subject for debate. However, I fail to understand how Cicero can be described as a coward so unequivocally!

Can't agree more; if facing a Catilina or a Clodius were not risky enough, Cicero's fiery Philippics were given against the most powerful Roman general of the time; guts were definitively needed for that.

 

BTW, from Merriam-Webster (SIC) Tyrant:

"1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution

b : a usurper of sovereignty

2 a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally."

 

Even if CJ Caesar may not have fulfilled 2a criteria, he most definitively qualified under either 1a or 1b.

[Cannae]

With specific reference to Punic War I, was there a Punic land victory other than that won by Xanthippus? Plainly in general, there was no Punic requirement of Hellenic support but your reference seems to be to the first war, in which there was that single Punic victory. Who knows, had it not been for the arrogance and harshness of Regulus' demands after Adys, there may have been a settlement and that battle would not have taken place.

If we are to absolutely rely on Polybius (as you know, no Punic sources survived), the Carthaginians would have been able to contain (at least) the Romans for no less than 23 years with but one land victory (sponsored by a Spartan mercenary), one naval victory (due to the Roman commander impiety) and a couple of coincidental major wreckages from the Roman fleet (?!?!?).

 

Aside of that, Punic War I would have been just a plethora of wonderful Roman victories...

 

Needless to say, all that is entirely unreliable for even the most naive reader; it

[Cleopatra's Lost Tomb]

As a side note, I posted yesterday that Hawass has not given permission to the two Italian brothers who claim to have discovered the Lost Army in the Egyptian desert.

Hawass should be boycotted by all archeologists, and all escavation funding frozen. What may have started as revenge for a Unesco appointment has turned into an escalating shakedown of western museums because they have been so spinelessly aquiescent. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/17/science/17tier.html?_r=1

Why? For combating looting?

[Great Drain at Aqua Sulis to be investigated]

Trash heaps, garbage dumps, latrines, sewers, and privy pits. What would we do without these sources of archaeology? It's not the broken columns, the semi-complete pediments or the marble busts, but the lowest of the low that enrich history.

Eschatological as it sounds, for any body the anus is as indispensable as the heart or the brain...

[Fear mongering]

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Great Drain at Aqua Sulis to be investigated]

I wrote my masters on roman sewage systems.

So did Mr. JNN Hopkins.

[WW1 German sympathies in high US places?]

She has study notes for the course she teaches about her book at http://www.recordedbooks.com/courses_pdf/UT015.pdf

It is interesting to do a repeat-find on "conclusion" to pick up sentences that summarize each lecture and give a starting point for pursueing any points in more depth.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Environmentalism in Ancient Rome]

More about the royal hunt: The Royal Hunt in Eurasian History by Thomas T. Allsen

http://books.google.ro/books?id=6V9MtZT6go...;q=&f=false

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Coins found at Jewish Temple site]

Sylla: Good pick up. I couldn't make out the details.

I did find some similar coins from the later Bar Kokhba revolt (AD 132-136):

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsourc...condRevolt.html

An interesting quote from the article:

"The 24-26mm. bronzes of Bar Kochba picture a grape vine leaf and 7-branched palm tree. The seven branches of the palm tree could well allude to the holy 7-branched Temple Menorah, that was considered too holy to depict on coins (with the isolated exception of the small bronze Menorah coin issued in the last desperate days of the reign of Antigonus Mattathias)."

Another example from the Bar Kokhba revolt:

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?searc...p;view_mode=1#4

guy also known as gaius

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Coins found at Jewish Temple site]

Guy - sorry, I double posted on this. Should've checked out the new postings first.

 

J

 

Jason: I appreciate your shared interest and input on this topic.

 

One of my goals for 2010 will be to increase my knowledge about Ancient coins (without spending any money on coin purchases ).

 

 

guy also known as gaius

The burned coin shown in the linked article seems to be the reverse of a bronze Chatzi (= half a Shekel, i.e. two drachmas) from the year 4 of the rebellion (69-70 AD), depicting a seven-branched palm (an allegory of the menorah) flanked by two baskets.

 

It seems Israel has recently had significant problems with looters and metal detectorists.

[Fear mongering]

We have "scientific" models predicting dramatic and destructive climate change. We have also dire predictions of deadly pandemics. Terrorist attacks with tiny number of casualties (what % of US or UK citizens are killed by jihadists yearly outside conflict areas?) provoke enormous changes and loss of freedom for everybody. Various foods are targeted by official or private campaigns making unproven statements about their health danger a good example being the absurd vilification of salt.

Many people and organizations, public and private, want us to be afraid for various reasons that are about their interests and against ours. They profit from scaring us at our expanse. Media has become the place where this craziness it's propagated and public opinion it's at the level of a 5 year old looking for monsters under his bed.

Rant over.

 

About the most recent global scare:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,637119,00.html

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Who Killed Germanicus?]

The problem is, this issue will always be subject to speculation.

 

Piso and the paranoid Tiberius seem like candidates but Sejanus seems most likely.

 

The man wanted power for himself, and nothing would stand in his way until his actions got the better of him in the end.

 

How many times have we seen this in history?

The problem is, the real question must be "is there any evidence that Germanicus was killed at all?".

 

With the available evidence, the answer must be "No"; period.