[Hadrian's Wall to get Light Show]

Today it attracts visitors from all over the world, and is a firm favourite with the nation's children, who voted it second only to Stonehenge in a recent poll, in which it beat attractions such as the London Eye hands down.

A most impressive deed by itself.

[Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin]

Thanks a lot for that pretty image and nice post, Jason.

 

Hi-Tech (???) (uhh... maybe not so much) Third Millennium relic forgery... one can only guess if its coincidence with Wojtyla's canonization process is just random.

[Roman Cavalry.]

... the Armenians often performed outstandingly well against the Parthians, which was hardly surprising as both nations used essentially the same weapons and tactics.

 

It's my impression that the Armenians were primarily known for their heavy cavalry (catphracts), although they may also have used mounted archers to a lesser extent.

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DG%26um%3D1

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Carrhae and Jaxartes]

After reading how Crassus got lost in the desert it's interesting to look at a map and see that it is impossible, he was still in roman lands.

Lucullus had already defeated the parthians like many roman generals after him.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Carrhae and Jaxartes]

Carrhae is well know as one of the biggest blunders oof the Roman Army. Although Crassus was an adequate general, he was no Caesar, nor even Pompey. Still he should have know better than to allow his army to be surrounded by the Parthians. Later on Marc Anthony didn't fare much better, although he was able to avoid a total defeat.

 

Compare that to what Alexander did against the Scythians at Jaxartes. He was very much aware of how dangerous they were and he planned his strategy in such a way that the baiters became the baited.

 

http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jaxartes/battle.html

 

I will admit that the Parthians were a more formidable opponent than the Scythians, but the same principle could have been applied. It's not clear to me what strategy was used later by Trajan, but he must have been familiar with Alexander's strategy against the Scythians.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Roman Cavalry.]

So I ask you, do you think the Romans would have fared better all across the Empire with more and batter trained cavalry?

Yes.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Goths and Dacia]

Salve Sylla

 

Well, i didnt said they was born in Dacia north of Danube, but that they was from dacian origin. I dont know exactly where was born Regalianus for ex., but Galerius and Licinius was born in Moesia (later know as Dacia Ripensis) province, as well there was born the father of Constantine, and this is today Serbia mostly, not Croatia, and was a former dacian teritory incorporated in roman empire previous to one in north of Danube.

 

About Lactantius and what he wrote about Galerius

 

http://www.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/t...pers.html#XXVII

 

More specific the chapter XXVII, at the end.

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Goths and Dacia]

Constantine the Great (who's father was probably from dacian origin as well, and his brother-in-law Licinius being from dacian origin too) retook some lands north of Danube, and possible other emperors controled "de facto" the former province. Galerius for ex. was one of the emperors from dacian origin ...

Close but not so; those and other emperors of the late III/early IV century were from Dalmatia (Illyricum), not Dacia. (In modern terms, Croatia, not Romania).

(acording with Lactantius in "De mortibus persecutorum" he even intended to change the name of the Roman empire in Dacian empire)

A fascinating anecdote; would you be kind enough to post the full reference? Thanks in advance.

... as well Regalianus, one of the throne usurpers was from dacian origin and even pretend is the from the same family with Decebalus,

The quote is exact but comes from an extremely unreliable source, the Historia Augusta, especially fictionalized for the "minor biographies" of usurpers like Regalianus.

Constantine the Great ... retook some lands north of Danube, and possible other emperors controled "de facto" the former province... probably to took under his control the free dacians too.

Troops from both sides of the Danubian border often raided the other side; however, a persistent re-occupation of a significant portion of the former Roman Dacia seems unlikely.

[bestiae]

For instance, the fact of specifying that some lions were "with mane" and others "without" is quite interesting, and in my opinion doesn't only refer to the different gender of those big cats (because of sexual dimorphism, lionesses are maneless, and such an obvious detail was of course to be known to a naturalist like Pliny): .., Pliny is most likely to refer to the fact that, in order to ensure a... level playing field (a mane represents a clear advantage, both in psycological terms - making the beast appear much bigger - that for protection purposes), some lions were shaved (this practise seems, helas, to be still in use today in the tiger vs lion combats staged illegally).

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Goths and Dacia]

The main point of my post is to find out what was going on in Dacia during that time interval. How Romanized were the Goths? What legacy, if any, did the Goths leave behind when they crossed the danube in the 4th century?

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Lacus Curtius]

BTW, Happy Birthday, Mr. Thayer !

[Stop all the silly Ancient Rome / United States comparisons]

Just my own anecdotal observation

You may be right; my own impression is that you can easily find bookstores centered in either best-sellers or Classical texts in almost any major city of the world.

[Masada]

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Goths and Dacia]

I believe it was in the 3rd century under the reign of Aurelian that the Romans allowed the Goths to remain in Dacia. They must have encountered a large Romanio-Dacian population that may have inluenced them in many ways. We all know that present-day Romania still has a language closely related to latin.

 

What is known of the relationship between the Goths and the local population during this time period? Later in the 4th century the Romans allowed the Goths to cross the Danube to escape the Huns, but what happened to the local Romano-Dacians?

Please don't let the verb "allow" confound you; it was not as if the Romans had any other option then or whenever they "allowed" any Barbarians to take any Roman territory.

[Romans vs Germans in III century AD]

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Romans vs Germans in III century AD]

I think the germanic (and related populations) getting progresively stronger for 3 reasons:

 

1- romans getting progresivly weaker, due their big internal problems, as endless civil wars and battles for power betwen a lot of emperors, pretenders to throne, generals from diferent regions, etc., the chronic corruption of administration, and slowly but steady fall of economy, because of all that, and ofcourse the fall of interest for "martial virtues: of many roman citizens, this come to the

2- a lot of germanics (and not just) are accepted and recruited in roman army, and received roman type of training and equipment, rising up their level of martial power and knowledge, and in the same time make them to have an inside knowledge of roman army. Before that germans had just exceptional succeses (as Arausio), but more because romans mistakes (or stupidity of some commanders), and not necesarily german prowess. Even Arminius was in fact roman citizen and high regarded officer in roman army, this explaining his succes at Teutoborg.

3- other powers as dacians and celts was already eliminated by romans.

 

About huns, in my opinion they are a little overrated, mostly because roman church propaganda, who use them as a "boogeymans" to bring peoples to them, as well to "make" the pope looking "big", since he resolved the problem with Attila (probably bribe him infact) to not invade Rome. Huns, especialy when acted alone, so just few thousands of cavalry archers, was very succesfull using "hit and run" tactics (using even the roman roads system to move quickly across the empire), good for plunder, but not for real conquers. They benefit alot as well on the fact that romans was in agony, and not able to rise any good army to deal with them and their tactics (especial the western empire). However, when the huns wanted to fight more in the "classic" way, and to conquer cities and teritories, using a mixed army, and romans manage to bring an army too, romans win (see the battle of Catalaunic fields/Campus Mauriacus, when Flavius Aetius let Attila alive and free because of his own from political reasons). They was good as long as Attila (who also lived a while among romans) lived and manage to keep them togheter (they becomed too a mix of different peoples, with huns just as the dominants leaders). After Attila death they was defeated by some smaller germaic tribes and practicly dissapear from the history.

More or less everyone propose the same general mechanisms; the problems come with the specifics.

For example, why did only the West fall?

The East had the same big internal problems (which in fact continued there long after the V century).

Romanized or not, Germans and Huns were also attacking there.

 

And for the record; I'm not aware of any evidence that Aetius "let" Attila "free" in Ch

[Romans vs Germans in III century AD]

This show that romans wasnt at all stopped by Teutoborg disaster, but they in fact controlled Germania betwen Rhine and Elba long time after that, even in III century AD. They send armies in north of Germany, and defeated the germans who tried to stop them. My opinion is that germans manage to rise as a power in Europe mostly after alot of them was "romanized" and accepted in roman army as auxiliars and mercenaries (due to endless internal wars of romans, and they need of new soldiers), where they received roman type of training and equipment, and after roman empire start to crumble and fall because of its huge internal problems, and after romans "cleaned"up Europe from other powers as Celts, Dacians and Greeks.

I have not got all my books to hand just now so I cannot be too precise, but some writers on the later Roman Empire have remarked that the super tribes of Allemanni, Frank and Goth were dangerous from the 3rd century on precisely because of partial Romanisation.

I think most posters here in UNRV would agree the Germans and related populations were getting progressively stronger; that was only natural after having to face the Roman advance for such a long time.

In any case, it's clear that romanization was not indispensable for the Barbarians to become powerful warriors; the Huns were an excellent example of that fact.

The increase of the military proficiency was presumably one of the major factors that contributed to the collapse of the Western Empire, but just one of them and hardly the whole story, as it cannot explain by itself why the East survived while facing essentially the same menace across the Danubian frontier.

[Stop all the silly Ancient Rome / United States comparisons]

I agree that some of those examples you posted were far-reaching, but at least they're trying to think about history.

 

What concerns me more is that most americans have virtually no knowledge of history. This knowledge void has allowed certain individuals to make blanket statements about US history that totally ignore our Greco-Roman heritage, and attribute all of our values to "Judeo-Christian" influences.

My own experience is that Americans are not particularly worse than other nationalities on that count.

[Masada]

Jeanne d'Arc was killed by some French while she was actually from the Holy Empire, Walesa was imprisoned by the polish government and poles definitely don't see him as a hero and among the opponents of Washington and the secessionist movement were many colonists and natives - the loyalists.

My point - the defenders of Masada were part of a political movement not the representatives of an entire nation (linguistic or religious group). There were other political movements in the area that fought on the roman side while other people, probably a majority, focused on survival.

I believe that most people are fighting for the independence of a country so they can rule it, not because independence has a positive value in itself.

I

[Cleopatra's Lost Tomb]

I don't get why modern Egyptians and Peruvians have rights over artifacts of Incas or ancient Egyptians? Even if they were the same nation the claim would be dubious, imagine France asking for all impressionist paintings to be returned.

Yup, that would be like Greece asking for the Elgin Marbles, or Israel for the Holocaust cultural artifacts, or Guatemala for the Mayan codices, or Poland for its stolen art in Norway, or China for all those artifacts all around the world, or Romania for ...

(Any candidates???)

Or Romanian for the Ukrainian provinces it says were always its..

By "candidates" I obviously meant cultural artifacts (as all the other examples from Maty & me), not territorial reclamations.

[Languages of the Roman Empire]

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Death certificate is imprinted on the Shroud of Turin]

A Vatican scholar claims to have deciphered the "death certificate" imprinted on the Shroud of Turin, or Holy Shroud, a linen cloth revered by Christians and held by many to bear the image of the crucified Jesus.

 

Dr Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican secret archives, said "I think I have managed to read the burial certificate of Jesus the Nazarene, or Jesus of Nazareth." She said that she had reconstructed it from fragments of Greek, Hebrew and Latin writing imprinted on the cloth together with the image of the crucified man....

 

Dr Frale said that many of the letters were missing, with Jesus for example referred to as "(I)esou(s) Nnazarennos" and only the "iber" of "Tiberiou" surviving. Her reconstruction, however, suggested that the certificate read: "In the year 16 of the reign of the Emperor Tiberius Jesus the Nazarene, taken down in the early evening after having been condemned to death by a Roman judge because he was found guilty by a Hebrew authority, is hereby sent for burial with the obligation of being consigned to his family only after one full year". It ends "signed by" but the signature has not survived.

 

...read full article at the Times Online

Sometimes one simply can't decide if we should laugh, cry or both.

[Masada]

We had quite a discussion about the Masada TV mini-series a couple of years ago. You may be interested in checking it out:

 

http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7163&hl

 

-- Nephele

Usus autem sum, ne in aliquo fallam carissimam mihi familiaritatem tuam, praecipue libris ex bibliotheca Ulpia, aetate mea thermis Diocletianis, et item ex domo Tiberiana, usus etiam [ex] regestis scribarum porticus porphyreticae, actis etiam senatus ac populi. 2 et quoniam me ad colligenda talis viri gesta ephemeris Turduli Gallicani plurimum invit, viri honestissimi ac sincerissimi, beneficium amici senis tacere non debui. 3 Cn. Pompeium, tribus fulgentem triumphis belli piratici, belli Sertoriani, belli Mithridatici multarumque rerum gestarum maiestate sublimem, quis tandem nosset, nisi eum Marcus Tullius et Titus Livius in litteras rettulissent? 4 Publ<i>um Scipionem Afric<an>um, immo Scipiones omnes, seu Lucios seu Nasicas, nonne tenebrae possiderent ac tegerent, nisi commendatores eorum historici nobiles atque ignobiles extitissent? 5 longum est omnia persequi, quae ad exemplum huiusce modi etiam nobis tacentibus usurpanda sunt. 6 illud tantum contestatum volo me et rem scripsisse, quam, si quis voluerit, honestius eloquio celsiore demonstret, et mihi quidem id animi fuit, 6 <ut> non Sallustios, Livios, Tacito<s>, Trogos atque omnes disertissimos imitarer viros in vita principum et temporibus disserendis, sed Marium Maximum, Suetonium Tranquillum, Fabium Marcellinum, Gargilium Martialem, Iulium Capitolinum, Aelium Lampridium ceterosque, qui haec et talia non tam diserte quam vere memoriae tradiderunt. 8 sum enim unus ex curiosis, quod infi[ni]t<i>as ire non possum, ince<n>dentibus vobis, qui, cum multa sciatis, scire multo plura cupitis. 9 et ne diutius ea, quae ad meum consilium pertinent, loquar, magnum et praeclarum principem et qualem historia nostra non novit, arripiam.

[Cleopatra's Lost Tomb]

I don't get why modern Egyptians and Peruvians have rights over artifacts of Incas or ancient Egyptians? Even if they were the same nation the claim would be dubious, imagine France asking for all impressionist paintings to be returned.

Yup, that would be like Greece asking for the Elgin Marbles, or Israel for the Holocaust cultural artifacts, or Guatemala for the Mayan codices, or Poland for its stolen art in Norway, or China for all those artifacts all around the world, or Romania for ...

(Any candidates???)

[Tourism in Venice is Reaching Meltdown]

Here is a nice Map on the expected effect on Venice of the sea level rise from the ongoing global warming

 

Over what timescale precisely? Enough said.

I can't be sure, but it seems that you have nothing else to say on the core arguments previously exposed by me all along this thread; God forbids, we may even agree...

 

In spite of that, I'm sure this will not be "enough" until you say "the last word"; thanks in advance.