longbow Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Anyone know why the legions changed from segmenta Armour to Chain/Scale Armour? And why change from a pilum to martiobarbuli (throwing spears)? thx L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost_Warrior Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I actually thought they went from chain mail ::shudders:: to segmenta in the later years. I don't know the exact figures though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerfectimusPrime Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well, Lorica segmentata was probably the best relatively expensive armour available and it was used by probably all of the legionaries when it was in use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerfectimusPrime Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I actually thought they went from chain mail ::shudders:: to segmenta in the later years. I don't know the exact figures though. They did, but they returned to the chain mail later on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victrix Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 After Marcus Aurelius's son and successor Commodus died the Empire erupted into civil war, eventually won by Septimus Severus. These Wars of Succession, 193 AD - 197 AD, can be viewed as the last gasp of the segmentata. It was no longer standard issue to new recruits, and had already become a very rare sight. The period 180 to 235 AD was a transitional time. The old and the new would have intermixed a lot before the old segmentata fell into disuse completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacertus Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Since 3 CE an armour were used seldom. Probably, it is connected to falling discipline in the legions. Anarchy was typical for this century . It has touched the army too. The armour have remained at cavalry. They were scaly or such as a chain armour, length up to knees, with cuts on each side and with long sleeves. The chain armour weighed 55-65 pounds and was more flexible than segmenta. Martiobarbuli has replaced pilum because it was more perfect weapon. It was the jagged dart with lead weighting. These improvements have made the throwing weapon more destroying. Besides, the additional weighting allowed to strike more exactly and advantaged the greater penetrative force. Military art does not stand on a place, the weapon will be improved at all times. Excuse me for some mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 And why change from a pilum to martiobarbuli (throwing spears)?thx L i was confused to this question and term... pilum is a javelin and martiobarbuli also, they differ only in size, soldier who use and function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 The pilum and the martiobarbuli are different weapons,allthough they are both a type of javelin.you say the they differ only in size, and function.Forgive me if im wrong but that seems quite a difference to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacertus Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 The pilum and the martiobarbul are not different weapons. The martiobarbul is the perfected pilum. The practical application of this weapon are not change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 you say the they differ only in size, and function.Forgive me if im wrong but that seems quite a difference to me Lacertus... The pilum and the martiobarbul are not different weapons. The martiobarbul is the perfected pilum. The practical application of this weapon are not change. wargamer's reply is , here is how i understand it. a Roman legiones have all this weapons, for example the Hastatus... big spear................................=spear weapon.............. "hastae" primum weapon small spear.............................=spear weapon.............. "hastula" ( use as reserve in case the hastae break ? ) big javelin...............................=thong javelin............... "amentata" small javelin...........................= light trowing spear........"velitaris" ( with soft iron tip, terms could be ,small spear , javelin , or dart ) lets see what i mean...and have a comparative study. soldier......................................hastatus.........................celtic soldier big spear................................. "hastae".........................."bebra" small javelin............................."velitaris"........................."martiobarbuli" ( with soft iron tip ) a hastatus have hastae...and a pilanus have pilus.and his javelin is called pilum, here is my reply to longbow. so a "hastae" is a spear and "hastula" is a small spear. to a detailed study of a military professional they are different, yes. so that why i am getting confused, how the "martiobarbuli" with soft iron tip, become a primary weapon, maybe i am wrong on my notes. please i only mean to make things clearer to me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow Posted May 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 No probs m8,i too am confused about how the martiobarbul became the primary weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 According to Gibbon, the Roman troops in the late empire began complaining about the weight of the armour and the helmets. And their leaders actually consented to allow them to no longer wear their armour around camp, in town and even in battle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longbow Posted May 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 ok,so its the influx of the ill disiplined commanders and troops which changed the Armour/weapons. Thx all. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominus Posted May 13, 2005 Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Complex question, considering all the centuries (years, not troops! ;-) involved. All these armor types coexisted for long periods of time. I agree completeyl that segmentata (as we now call it) was the height of armor development in Roman times. Lacertus is very correct in that roles became reversed in later years. Cavalry became the star players on the battlefield, with infantry in a supporting (and therefore less well-funded) role. The later Empire relied on centralized, mobile units rather than static border guards. So we see cavalry armor becoming increasing developed while infantry fell by the less glamourous wayside. One factor that no one's mentioned in these fine responses were the plagues that reduced manpower, and thus limited the empire's manpower. This impacted mining, and the ability of factories that produced segmentata. Wargamer, the martiobarbuli is like a lead (American) football with a barbed spike on the front end and stabilizers on the back. Nasty little toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman wargamer Posted May 14, 2005 Report Share Posted May 14, 2005 Wargamer, the martiobarbuli is like a lead (American) football with a barbed spike on the front end and stabilizers on the back. yes , it stick in my mind that it is different from "velitaris" but very near when compared to size and function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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