Favonius Cornelius Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 At midnight behind the theater, assemble the guards, and when the emperor leaves.... I think the Empire probably knew more failed plots that any other era in human history. Which is your favorite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 At midnight behind the theater, assemble the guards, and when the emperor leaves.... I think the Empire probably knew more failed plots that any other era in human history. Which is your favorite? To restore the republic simply by killing Caesar. The killing Caesar part worked, the rest...not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 One of the great myths of politics is that killing the strong man changes anything. As the dimwits who murdered Caesar (the one man who might have saved the republic) demonstrated, conspirators are usually disgruntled little fish acting on motives such as jealousy, envy, revenge, and who are incapable of organising a party in a brewery. To remove a madman (Commodus, Caracalla, maybe Gaius) is one thing, but to remove an effectively performing head of state is quite another. The Liberators were plain wrong. Fortunately, they all met their just deserts. To answer the original question - I don't condone murder (unlike some here) under ANY circumstances - but the removal of Commodus has some amusing features. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Good post Phil. I don't know of many failed plots myself, I believe both Gaius and Commodus avoided earlier attempts on their lives. Matter of fact it would seem that almost every Emperor after Augustus put someone to death for a suspected plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 (edited) I believe that the plot to assasinate Caesar would rank high as an ill-conceived plot. They killed an essentially effective administrator who was about to go and add further territory to the Republic. They had no long-term plan for the Republic. Thus, they were defeated by Antonius and Octavian. If these two hadn't been there, i shudder to think what course Rome would have taken (most likely total collapse or anarchy, in which case another like or worse than Caesar would have risen anyway). Sometimes i wonder what would have happened if Caesar had survived, went to campaign against the Parthians, and left Octavian to carry out his reforms? An interesting thought eh, although perhaps slightly irrelevant I was trying to find some failed plots of famous or influential Emperors in later Eastern Roman history, but i didn't get too far; the plots either succeeded or were detected and not written about in detail. Edited January 20, 2006 by Tobias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Favonius Cornelius Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 As much as I love Caesar, I have to admit I do wonder if he should be painted in such a Republican light as I am hearing here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princeps Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Yes indeed, there are almost too many to have a definitive favourite. I suppose mine would be the unproven plot against Constantine (Crispus and Fausta). Personally I believe he had them killed because they were having an affair (his reform of divorce procedures and introduction of harsher penalties against adultery really make this a certainty in my mind), but many more learned historians than I seem to think there was a plot against him. Why is it my favourite? Because it showed how polarised Constantines personality could be. Wise and often merciful, he would preach to his courtiers about the virtues of goodness and the dangers of sin, yet he could be utterly ruthless when he needed to be, even against the closest members of his immediate family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Just to point out that it was Antonius' generalship that defeated the Liberators and not Octavian (whose whereabouts at Philippi remain a mystery). Antonius did not initially want to go to war against the assassins, and Octavian's prompting was probably what changed his mind, but Cassius would probably have eaten Octavian alone. In my post, I was not seeking to do more than to point out that Caesar was more able than those who killed him. He was, in a sense, part of the solution, they of the problem. But I don't think he had a clear idea of what to do in 44 - hence his decision to go east and try to find breathing space, and hope time might bring enough changes to allow some new options. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Clodius Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Cato is going to have a field day with some of the posts here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil25 Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Nah - Cato's a pussycat. You know that they say about protesting too much. He's a secret Caesar fan.... Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Very nice bait, but not biting. But just you wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tflex Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) But I don't think he had a clear idea of what to do in 44 - hence his decision to go east and try to find breathing space, and hope time might bring enough changes to allow some new options. Phil Again Phil, thats your own personal opinion not a historical fact, it's called a cheap shot. Edited January 20, 2006 by tflex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sextus Roscius Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 The Cataline Conspiracy! of course Cicero blew it incredibly out of porportion, I stand by my hero is saying that Cotalina might have posed a threat to the Roman state. Thanks to Ciceros young prode'ge Caelius, the plot was discovered! Still failed though, Cataline got his rear beaten by the army of the Senate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 tflex: - Again Phil, thats your own personal opinion not a historical fact, it's called a cheap shot. As Phil started the statement with "But I don't think" he seems to already know it's his personal opinion, it's no cheaper than anyone elses opinion is it ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLavius Valerius Constantinus Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yes indeed, there are almost too many to have a definitive favourite. I suppose mine would be the unproven plot against Constantine (Crispus and Fausta). Personally I believe he had them killed because they were having an affair (his reform of divorce procedures and introduction of harsher penalties against adultery really make this a certainty in my mind), but many more learned historians than I seem to think there was a plot against him. Why is it my favourite? Because it showed how polarised Constantines personality could be. Wise and often merciful, he would preach to his courtiers about the virtues of goodness and the dangers of sin, yet he could be utterly ruthless when he needed to be, even against the closest members of his immediate family. I agree with Princeps. Out of personal preference of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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