Princeps Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 What did the Romans do for kicks when not participating in drunken orgies and blood sports? They were very fond of their wine certainly, but what about other substances? Am I right in thinking that tobacco was a New World discovery? I've never come across any mention of narcotics etc in the writings of the Roman historians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Tobacco came to Europe from America. I bellieve that the Roman physicians used a poppy derivative for medicinal and surgical purposes. They didn't have 'weed' or coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Tobacco came to Europe from America. I bellieve that the Roman physicians used a poppy derivative for medicinal and surgical purposes. They didn't have 'weed' or coffee. I've seen the issue of 'why' hotly debated but some Egyptian mummies have been tested positive for nicotine and cocaine... Both New World compounds. The nicotine is explained away (alledgedly) by the coating of mummies in a sort of tobacco tar for preservation in the 19th century. Cocaine? dunno. I've been told that there was an Egyptian plant that 'used' to exist with similar alkaloids. I don't know enough of the details one way or another... A lot of people would love to see this as proof of pre-Columbian contact; myself included. Coffee took a while for people to figure out. Much later than the Roman period if I'm not mistaken. Probably a good thing. People from the Greco-Roman world had plenty of stuff to keep them busy though. I'm sure Pertinax can fill us in. As for 'weed' see my thread about Herodotus' anecdote on the Scythian 'vapor bath' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEG X EQ Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 In terms of hallucinogens, the Romans dwelled over mushrooms. Mushrooms were common within the legion as well as with the plebs. In Ancient Friuli (north East italy) certain types of Mushrooms with different hallucinogenic effects grew. So apart from the Alcohol, and certain seeds, Mushrooms were the most popular drug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Wasn't Marcus Aurelius an opium addict ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 To the list of diversions, you can add gambling, horse racing, sports, hunting, the baths, reading, writing and discussion groups. Then there is that bit about the elite youngsters running around at night mugging the unwary citizenry for 'fun'. I don't think that they smoked anything, since they didn't have matches or lighters handy. The baths might have been a good place to have a cluster inhalation session of sundry herbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Datura Stramonum (thorn apple ) was well known in N Africa asnd as an Arabian hallucogen above and beyond its use for asthmatic complaints, the Opium Poppy would conceivably be a source of the likeliest recreational use ( American experience of narcotics after the Civil War produced a rash of addicted soldiers whoo had been treated with the opium derivates ). My blog points to several hullucogens as being well known and available as painkillers , a skilled person would appreciate the different strengths of herb between the fertile, febrile growths of Egypt and the rather lukewarm variants from further north ( the Papavero (poppy) is again the best example -and I cite this in the blog) , especially Brittania where the narcotic latex of the poppy has been reduced in potency to a mild painkiller (all poppies are escapee progeny of Rman introductions). The real narcotics would be psychotropic beers of Celtiberian and Pictish provenance (Buhner entry in my blog) if accessible to the average soldier. I am intrigued by LEG X Qs remarks on fungii and would be pleased to see a cited source on this , I have forborne to post any fungii in the '"Roman Herbal" gallery as I have no direct or indirect information on usage, similarly Cruse (Roman Medicine) and Jashemski (Pompeian Herbal ) cite no hallucogenic fungii in either autopsy or usage.Galen is silent on fungii also. Any links and factual evidence greatly appreciated. The use of wines with herbal reinforcement would be my favoured suggestion, Yarrow (Achillea Millefolium) perhaps , but any number of potentially psycoactive combos could be put together by an intelligent (or unscrupulous) vendor. I am in a rush today -so thats it for now :please check blog a-z for herbs and gallery for hints on potency! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primus Pilus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Wasn't Marcus Aurelius an opium addict ? Many historians claim it to be so and the emperor himself admits to using it for many reasons in 'Meditations'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 What I failed to say was-I know what was generally available to the "enquiring mind" but would your Optio or Decurion let you get away with taking it? :fish: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 In regards to the tox study on the mummies, I found one of the scholarly articles on the subject: American Drugs in Egyptian Mummies: A Review of the Evidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pertinax Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 I will regale everyone with chapter and verse on the nicotine/cocaine traces -suffice to say,for now, tropane alkaloids decay and appear nicotine and cocaine like-why? From same plant families on different continents, solanaceae ie: spuds for example or far more likely here, hycosine from my old friend henbane ! The Egyptian /Roman painkiller and still the basis for modern pre-med. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEG X EQ Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 @Pertinax My source is the book from the swede Christian Albrecht, Kulinarium Antike. In this book he sites the Knowledge of the Ancient world on Mushrooms. Sources and refferences are being made from the Greeks: Theophrastus of Eresos, Nikander and (on the topic hallucinogens) Dioskurides . And from the Romans: Cornelius Celsus and Plinius. I dont know an english book, but any english book that states texts and works of one of these 5 (espescially Dioskurides and Celsus) must contain info about the use of mushrooms in the ancient times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantagathus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 I will regale everyone with chapter and verse on the nicotine/cocaine traces -suffice to say,for now, tropane alkaloids decay and appear nicotine and cocaine like-why? From same plant families on different continents, solanaceae ie: spuds for example or far more likely here, hycosine from my old friend henbane ! The Egyptian /Roman painkiller and still the basis for modern pre-med. But I guess with the THC they were hanging out with the Scythians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Germanicus Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Around 70AD Dioscorides speaks of the Romans using Cannabis seed or it's derivatives as a medical treatment. In 170AD Galen, Physician to Marcus Aurelius, Verus, Commodus and Septimus Severus discusses the psycho active properties of Cannabis seed cakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Porcius Cato Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Around 70AD Dioscorides speaks of the Romans using Cannabis seed or it's derivatives as a medical treatment. In 170AD Galen, Physician to Marcus Aurelius, Verus, Commodus and Septimus Severus discusses the psycho active properties of Cannabis seed cakes. What was the Latin word for these products? Cannabis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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