Gaius Octavius Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Presuming that there were Moslems in the Empire, what is known about them and their status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
votadini Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 Presuming that there were Moslems in the Empire, what is known about them and their status? Meaning in the Eastern Empire (after the 7th Century)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) [quote name='votadini' date='Jan 28 2007, 10:23 AM' post='54282' Meaning in the Eastern Empire (after the 7th Century)? Yes. And from 624AD on. Edited January 28, 2007 by Gaius Octavius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is getting silly. In another thread someone said that 'Caesar supported Christianity....' and, from its context, he was referring to Gaius Julius Caesar! Caesar was older than Christ. The Western Roman Empire had been over run by the time the Prophet Mohammad (Praise be His Name....yabba yabba....)started the spread of Islam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is getting silly. The interaction between Islamic and Byzantine worlds is a valid enough topic for the post-Roman/Byzantine forum, so let us move it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 [quote name='Ursus' date='Jan 28 2007, 11:03 AM' post='54290' The interaction between Islamic and Byzantine worlds is a valid enough topic for the post-Roman/Byzantine forum, so let us move it there. Sorry. Please do. This is getting silly. In another thread someone said that 'Caesar supported Christianity....' and, from its context, he was referring to Gaius Julius Caesar! Caesar was older than Christ. The Western Roman Empire had been over run by the time the Prophet Mohammad (Praise be His Name....yabba yabba....)started the spread of Islam Take a pill; take a nap, and then try reading what has been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) I replied prematurely. My apologies. It should be an interesting thread. Edited January 28, 2007 by spittle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 On this site, Spittle, the Byzantine East is generally considered a continuation of the Roman Empire. Granted only a few members have it as their primary interest, but we nonetheless give such topics whatever respect they deserve. To that end, if you have something relevant to say on the topic, by all means share. If you have no interest, go elsewhere. If you want to be snarky, take it to the arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Neil Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I believe the Byzantines used Pecheneg mercenaries in the tenth century. They were certainly Turkic, but wether or not they were Muslim, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 NN, doesn't mention anything about their religion, but is interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...;action=history For me it now brings up the question of the Khazars. Were they Jewish? A Lost Tribe? As far as I am concerned, it is fair game to go as far afield as one would like in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spittle Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is what I don't understand.... English school children are taught that the 'Light of Rome was extinguished by the barbarian hordes...' and an age of survival began. The flame of knowledge was barely kept alight by Irish Monks and, to a greater extent, early Muslims. It would seem that the light of Rome simply moved east? This may be an oversimplification but seems closer to events than Romes civilisation coming to an abrupt end. Why this Fall of Rome scenario as though it was the end of everything? Is it Eurocentric prejudice? By extension the 'Eastern Romans' must have had similar experiences with Islamic expansion that the Western Empire had with Christianity. I know that Islam was spread in a military blitzkreig totally different to Christian teaching but the ideology of new religions was nothing new. By the time that Wesrern Romans were over run they were predominantly Christian and, I believe, Constantinople stayed Christian til 1492. This would leave ample time for several phases of acceptance or war. In that time there MUST have been heroes and villains but I know of none! Why is it so obscure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludovicus Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 I know that Islam was spread in a military blitzkreig totally different to Christian teaching... It's not difficult to find Christians acting in the same way that Islam is frequently presented. Here just a few examples: "During the 15th century, Jews in Spain were frequently pressured into converting to Christianity. This culminated in their expulsion from Spain in 1492. Subsequently, in 1497, the Jews in Portugal were forcibly converted to Christianity." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion On Charlemagne's forced conversion of the Saxons: "The King, however, pressed them with unvarying purpose despite great difficulties and either took the field against them himself, or sent his counts against them with a host to wreak vengeance and exact due satisfaction. The war that had lasted so many years at last terminated when the Saxons gave way to the terms proffered by the King; namely, the renunciation of their native religious cults and devil-worship, the acceptance of the Christian sacraments, and union with the Franks into one people." http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/einhard-wars1.html On the French Wars of Religion: " The Guises, for their part, understood what this religious tolerance was all about and quickly clamped down on it. In March, 1562, an army led by the Duke of Guise attacked a Protestant church service at Vassy in the province of Champagne and slaughtered everybody they could get their hands on: men, women, and children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rameses the Great Posted January 28, 2007 Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) I would think that the Muslims were disliked before they reached the Eastern Empire because of the attacks on Egypt, Iraq, etc. Does anyone know when the Byzantines got knowledge of the Arab expansion? Edited January 28, 2007 by Rameses the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Octavius Posted January 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) All of the responses are helpful, but I am still wondering how Moslems were treated in the Empire and what their status was from 624AD to 1453AD. Edited January 28, 2007 by Gaius Octavius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docoflove1974 Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 Why this Fall of Rome scenario as though it was the end of everything? Is it Eurocentric prejudice? By extension the 'Eastern Romans' must have had similar experiences with Islamic expansion that the Western Empire had with Christianity. I know that Islam was spread in a military blitzkreig totally different to Christian teaching but the ideology of new religions was nothing new. I think that you're partially answering your own question. The same is true here in the States, that as kids we're taught that the Roman Empire fell in the 5th c. AD...and then we get to college and into our Western Civ. courses and are taught differently. I don't think that there is a question that there is both oversimplification and Euro-centric prejudices. On the one hand, you have to simplify things for the youngsters...try to make it less confusing. On the other hand, there shouldn't be a total neglect of the Byzantine/Eastern Empire at the high school level. I recall in college taking a course on 'Dark Age history', and questioning if it was 'Dark' in all areas of the world. My teaching assistant had the weirdest look on his face, and blurted out, "well, of course not. We're just meant to think that St. Peter's is the center of all that is interesting." A good point...and possibly the source of all of this focus. As a Romance linguist, the fall of Rome is a central figure...but that's because of the areas affected. Western Europe was in a state of flux and a bit of chaos, one could argue, for 500-1000 years afterwards. Perhaps more. And the language evolution bears this out, along with many other aspects of life. But by no means does it require us to forget about the other areas of the Mediterranean, let alone the rest of the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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