roman wargamer

i will call that type of soldier as javeliner and i will not call them as heavy infantry. a soldier armed only of gladius/pilum is not better armed than a velitarius or ferentarius.

your concept of pila could be what most people called or normally known as the pilum. Pila is the plural form of the single pilum. Same weapon. then it could be the proper name is pilanus. maybe, Caldrail, can help verify it in his Latin dictionary.

when it come to the right or proper name of the weapon; to be honest, i am not 100% sure because i can not read neither Greek or Latin. i learn my ancient history subject via the English books and translation. most of my reply was base on my long years of research and in-depth workguess. your concept of pila could be what most people called or normally known as the pilum. hasta is a long thrusting spear weapon of the hastati. that is my stand. if the hasta could cause immobility and not very maneouverable. then why not ask the question? why a bad weapon spear hasta become a triarii weapon? why the end defense line; the most veteran use it for their "[hasta] the lunging spear."? [of the triarii] pila is the spear of the triarii. was my formal stand. i hope it clears sone question. Roman have [different] name for every weapon they use.

pila are triarii main spear waepon and is not designed to be thrown like the javelin. triarii have gladius and dagger but not the hasta. hasta is a long thrusting spear weapon of the hastati. hasta is where the hastatus get their cognomen name title. time element is Julius Caesar.

it just happen cavalry never take any major engagement in the 3 battle except as to hold flank area. \ok! as you do not have the patience to wait for the fouth battle where Octavian use the Cavalry charge to win the Final Battle of Philippi. i'll do it. few thousand cavalry will not bear much against a 100,000 infantry if not properly use. first it is my stand that both the Republican and the Triumvir's Army possess cavalry on that battle. but let me be clear of what i believed and stand for on the Roman Tactics and Strategy. the cavalry can do and do many center frontal attack on the enemy battle line to make some gaps and breaking of men line to be later exploited by the following support infantry. it is a Roman Tactic use to do a frontal attacked on enemy front line raraely done, secondary attack are first initiated to covert the strategy and feint the real tactical move. before the enemy can predict where the main attack will come, in this case a frontal attack. it is the cavalry who will do the frontal attack because of the prime importance of time element. so the enemy will have no time to re aligned forces or move reserve men as support, on critical time, because it create more confusion on men to move around without any actual engagement. i will show it in a more detailed manner in my next thread to empasize that Roman Cavalry do only specific task in battle array according to their designation and function. equites men of war do not run far away from battle array without express command from the counsul. battle diagram was use as an aid to visualize how a certain event happen. military men always do it to explain. it will stand scrutiny on statistically and by probability standard. sorry if you are not use to it. but hoping some understand it in expaining more than 100,000 men battle in the most simple way..

"Brutus managed to regroup and take command of Cassius' remaining army." qoute from unrv, Battle of Philippi _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Cassius remaining army are 6 Roman Legio 111.222.333.444.555.666. 111.222.333.444.555.666. 111.222.333.444.555.666. Brutus army are 10 Roman Legio and 4 Allies legio 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ or a total of 16 Roman Legio and 4 Allies legio 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444.555.666.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444.555.666.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444.555.666.aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd. against the 14 Roman Legio of Anthony 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.111.222.333.444 _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Battle of Philippi, Third Battle Engagement between the Republican and the Triumvir's army and First Battle between Anthony and Brutus. Brutus army 16 Roman Legio and 4 Allies legio the wary and cautious Brutus keep his advantage as a full reserved to counter any Anthony's battle plan. figure 1 .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. 000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222.333.444. 000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222.333.444. 000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222.333.444. against the 14 Roman Legio of Anthony _____________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 2 "Antony assuredly reveled in his own [first] victory"[over Cassius] made a hastily direct attack against Brutus. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. 000.999.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.333.444. 000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222.333.444. 000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222.333.444. ............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. and immediately crush the front liner of the Allies legio. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 3 "Antony assuredly reveled in his own [first] victory"[over Cassius] .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .000.999.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.333.444. .000.999.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.333.444. .000.999.888.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.222.333.444. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ....................777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111. continue the direct frontal attack of the whole battle line agmen, and totally crushing the 4 Allies legio and destroying part of Brutus west legio and east legio. _________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 4 "Antony assuredly reveled in his own victory but Brutus held his ground and delayed Antony's triumph." at the critical moment, Brutus commited all his rear legio on reserve to counter attacked. and the tired first agmen of Anthony succumb to the fresh onslaught of the enemy. ..............333..................................................444. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333..................................................444.555.666. .111.222.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.555.666. .000.999.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.333.444. .000.999.888.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.222.333.444. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ....................777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 5 at the critical moment, Brutus commited all his rear legio on reserve to counter attacked. and the tired first agmen of Anthony succumb to the fresh onslaught of the enemy. ..............333...................................................444. .111.222.333...................................................444.555.666. .111.222.333.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.444.555.666. .111.222.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.555.666 .000.999.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.333.444. .000.999................................................................333.444 ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. ..............888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111.222. here Anthony made a vigorous direct attacked but was repulse by Brutus and force to withdraw ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Anthony actions show his poor judgment and lack of creativity in warfare. and Brutus who are very cautious let's good luck and possible of winning the battle slip his hand. He never try to launch any major counter attack against the withdrawing army of Anthony.

then without poiting fingers, let us do some possible scenario of the Battle of Philippi. "let us be clear that it is only threoritical scenario:" rw it is to simple, it show's the tactical and strategic genius of Octavian who later become emperor, who learn from Caesar. Anthony who win the first battle against Cassius later lost to Brutus who commanded a combine army.why? first a winner then a loser. if only Anthony attacked with Octavian men, surely they have more number of men to use. and while the triumvir's army of Octavian was pushed back to total retreat on the first battle. how come the triumvir's army who was first defeated earlier by Brutus, later on the second battle, and the triumvir's army now under the direct command of Octavian, defeated and totally annihilated the combine army of Cassius under Brutus, who have have superior number of men. this case scenario i like to digest to study how battle can be won with inferior number of men, by good tactical formation from the beginning, then the perfect and snychronized strategic movement of forces. the frontal attacked in the center of the enemy battle line, it is done by Octavian army, who was percieved by Brutus as weak. __________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 1 Brutus on top of the monitor let us presuppose Brutus have 10 Roman legio and 4 Allies legio. before the battle begin each army"s formation .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd. .......111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. .......111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. .......111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. ...against Octavian 12 Roman Legio _________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 2 Brutus have 10 Roman legio and 4 Allies legio as the battle engagement begin and the battle line meet Brutus notice they have longer battle line agmen .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc.ddd. .aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc.ddd. .111.111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111 .......111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. .............222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222. while the triumvir army"s veteran officer notice it lately and immediately corrected it by using the second agmen battle line of their both flanks, left and right to be extended, to equal the line. ...against Octavian 12 Roman Legio _________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 3 Brutus notice they have longer battle line agmen as the battle develop Brutus simple out manuever the triumvir"s army by making a bold flanking attack ...................bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc. ...................bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc. .......aaa.aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000.ccc.ddd.ddd,ddd .aaa.111.111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111 .............111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. ...................222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222. while the triumvir army"s veteran officer notice it lately and immediately done correctived counter measure. but the the left west legio and right east legio send and relay message, if the whole battle line agmen will not do a retreat, their sides will be out flanks later. and the army"s defense could colapse. ________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 4 "Brutus, though, had nearly equal success against Octavian and pushed his lines back. as the battle develop Brutus simple out manuever the triumvir's army by making a bold flanking attack unluckily for Brutus, when the triumvir"s army are making their rotational retreat of the whole battle line agmen, they did not send the cavalry to do some havoc on the rear to confused the enemy or maybe break their defense. ....................bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc. ....................bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc. ........aaa.aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000ccc. .aaa.======================================ddd.ddd,ddd .......111.111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111.111 .............111.222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. ...................222.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222. tasking all the antepilanus men of all the Hastatus manipular acies to bear the defensores counter measure. while the triumvir army's veteran officer made a perfect withdrawal, their experience pay's off. but the the left west legio and right east legio send and relay message, if the whole battle line agmen will not do a retreat, their sides will be out flanks later. ________________________________________________________________________________________ "Brutus, though, had nearly equal success against Octavian and pushed his lines back. Octavian was forced to flee his camp, taking refuge in a nearby marsh." But Brutus did not inflict any decisive damage to the Ocatavian's army, because the triumvir army's veteran officer made a perfect and very early withdrawal. except to all the Hastatus antepilanus men who do the defensores formation for the whole army. __________________________________________________________________________________________ why did Anthony lost to Brutus? as i said it is purely theoritical, how it happen base on known facts and statistic.

then without poiting fingers, let us do some possible scenario of the Battle of Philippi. let us be clear that it is only threoritical scenario: first case:Anthony versus Cassius let us presuppose Anthony have 14 Roman legio against Cassius 8 Roman Legio and 4 Allies legio. Cassius was on the top of monitor or imaginary north. here each group of figure and letter now represent a legio: _________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 1 before the battle begin each army"s formation ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111 _________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 2 as the battle engagement begin ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111 "As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left." __________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 3 as the battle develop Anthony out manuever Cassius by making a bold flanking attack ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.ccc.ddd. 111.222.333.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.333.222.111. 111.222.333.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.333.222.111. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. ...................444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333. ...................444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333. "As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left." ____________________________________________________________________________________________ figure 3 as the battle are now finally exacting it's toll to Republican men, Cassius was force to retreat ......aaa.bbb.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888. ...................111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888. 111.222.333....................................................333.222.111. 111.222.333.111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.333.222.111. 111.222.333.444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333.222.111. ...................444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333. ...................444.000.999.888.777.666.555.444.333. "As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left." ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Cassius retreated babrely saving 6 Roman legio men in number. in shame of defeat,even though he save enough men. "Cassius though was certainly unaware of his ally's good fortune and decided to take his own life,"

then why Anthony did not do it, to send all his cavalry to pursue the retreating Cassius Army. because it is not the standard way to exposed your cavalry to be harm unnecessarilly. "As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left." even Brutus did not do it, to send his precious cavalry to give the killing blow to Octavian men. "Brutus, though, had nearly equal success against Octavian and pushed his lines back."

let's see this case Battle of Philippi, to proved that a breaking of the first battle line will not means total defeat, unless until the colapse of the final battle line give way or been totally broken. xxxxxxxx first case: Octavian was defeated in the battle and they retreated. they were not totally annihilated as you presume will happen. "Brutus, though, had nearly equal success against Octavian and pushed his lines back. Octavian was forced to flee his camp, taking refuge in a nearby marsh." "As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left." "Brutus managed to regroup and take command of Cassius' remaining army." xxxxxxxxxx second case: "Antony assuredly reveled in his own victory but Brutus held his ground and delayed Antony's triumph." here Anthony made a vigorous second attacked but was repulse by Brutus and force to withdraw. "while Octavian was forced to retreat," At the Battle of 2nd Philippi :Octavian commanded his own army. This time they proved themselves up to the challenge, and the triumvir's army overran Brutus." and finally: "Octavian's forces captured Brutus' camp and they were atoned for their previous defeat. The battle spelled the end of the Republican cause, and Brutus committed suicide on the following day. " xxxxx qouted from the unrv Battle of Philippi In 42 BC, Octavian and Antony combined their forces, 28 legions in total, and sailed across the Adriatic and into Greece. The 'Liberators' Brutus and Cassius had 19 of their own legions, which were heavily supplemented by auxilia provided by eastern client kingdoms. As Octavian's and Antony's armies arrived and assembled near Dyrrhachium, the site of Caesar's near defeat to Pompey 6 years earlier, Octavian battled with his own poor health. Often described as a sickly youth, he was apparently stricken with a terrible illness just as the fate of the Roman world was about to be decided. Antony, however, likely saw a grand opportunity to win a great victory for his own cause without being forced to share any credit with his young fellow triumvir and rival. As Antony marched his army east towards the Macedonian - Thracian and border and confrontation with the enemy, Octavian had no choice but to follow, despite his illness, or risk being left out of the battle to revenge his adoptive father. On October 3, the two armies drew up near the Macedonian town of Philippi. Cassius commanded the left wing of the Republican forces directly across from Antony while Brutus confronted Octavian's army with the right wing. As the battle opened, Antony had a clear advantage over Cassius, and overran the Republican left. Brutus, though, had nearly equal success against Octavian and pushed his lines back. Octavian was forced to flee his camp, taking refuge in a nearby marsh. Cassius' defeat was significant and yet the entire affair could've been stabilized by Brutus's success. Cassius though was certainly unaware of his ally's good fortune and decided to take his own life, Brutus managed to regroup and take command of Cassius' remaining army. Antony assuredly reveled in his own victory while Octavian was forced to retreat, but Brutus held his ground and delayed Antony's triumph. On October 23, perhaps losing the confidence of his men, or willing to risk a final last ditch effort at victory, Brutus launched an attack. At the Battle of 2nd Philippi, Octavian was seemingly recovered from his illness and commanded his own army. He and his men were certainly embarrassed by their defeat just 3 weeks earlier and were prepared to give a better account. This time they proved themselves up to the challenge, and the triumvir's army overran Brutus. Octavian's forces captured Brutus' camp and they were atoned for their previous defeat. The battle spelled the end of the Republican cause, and Brutus committed suicide on the following day. A great number of those involved in the plot against Caesar also lost their lives at Philippi and Octavian was brutal in exacting vengeance. Though some escaped to join with Sextus Pompey in his Sicilian stronghold. After the battles, Octavian marched his army back to Italy. In light of the altered state of the Roman world, the triumvirs realigned their positions. Antony received the entire east as his new territory, yet retained Transalpine Gaul. Octavian now moved into the second position among. Lepidus, clearly relegated to third on the list, was moved to Africa.

Yes it does. Its a generalised statement about battle tactics that holds true for any period. I'm not that anal. Really, you're wasting your time trying to make these precise definitions. No army in the world could successfully organise themselves for victory they way you'd try to. Cavalry are mobile, infantry are slow. If the enemy retreats, its cavalry that can get there first and do the worst damage. Your infantry - any infantry - would have to run and sprint to get to the right place and catch them, even if they could. As a result, they become disordered and prone to counterattack by enemy cavalry. Sorry, but the idividual unit type of infantry is irrelevant. Yes I could, but I'd only be repeating the points I made in earlier posts on this thread. Are you seriously a wargamer? The reason I ask is that your interpretation of roman tactics and deployment is at odds with everyone elses. 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 ..................111.333.222 ..................111.333.222 ..................111.333.222 ......444.............666..............555 ......444.............666..............555 ......444.............666..............555 777...................999....................888........000 777...................999....................888........000 it is to simple when Caesar 1 , 3, 2 cohors attacked Brutus 4, 5, 6 cohors,in single engagement , if ever they colapse. Brutus's 1, 2 , 3, 7, 8, 9, 0 Cohors could remain intact , because there is mo battle engagement, and can do an orderly withdrawal. while Brutus's 4, 5, 6 could do a last effort to do a O square formation.

your reply has no point of order, direction and reference way. could you kindly define which is which, soldier, centuria, maniple and agmen you are talking about. let us have a visual perpective what we are talking about. for example: let's presume there are two Roman legio who are fighting each other. on the North Side [on top of the monitor] is Brutus's' legio. on the South Side [lower of the monitor] is Caesar's legio. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ we can use these representation as our reference The Cohors 1.AnteAdstatus 2.Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line 3.Hastatus Posterior 4.AntePrinceps 5.Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line 6.Princeps Posterior E.Cohors Equites Turmae......The Cohors Command Line 0.Signiferi Centuria 7.AnteTriarius 8.Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line 9.Triarius Posterior The Code Number Use in the Cohors Coding 1st Cohors was coded into 9 2nd Cohors was coded into 8 3rd Cohors was coded into 7 4th Cohors was coded into 6 5th Cohors was coded into 5 6th Cohors was coded into 4 7th Cohors was coded into 3 8th Cohors was coded into 2 9th Cohors was coded into 1 10th Cohors was coded into 0 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Brutus's's legio was on Simplex Agmen formation 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 111.222.333.444.555.666.777.888.999.000 ..................111.333.222 ..................111.333.222 ..................111.333.222 ......444.............666..............555 ......444.............666..............555 ......444.............666..............555 777...................999....................888........000 777...................999....................888........000 777...................999....................888........000 while Caesar's legio was on Duplex Agmen Formation with reserved Cohors on both flanks. from this initial formation, it is very apparent that Caesar legio could possinly do a frontal penetration attack. because he have enough reserved at the rear, and while he's first agmen flanks is under threat... it can be secured by the counter attack of 4 and 5 Cohors. if ever they will try to counter attacked the 4 and 5 Cohors, the 7 and 8 Cohors could again counter attacked it. while the 0 Cohors can do a right flanking manuever on the right side if ever the frontal penetration attacked at the center will cost Caesar 100% casualty vs. 50% casualty on enemy. the Two Cohors Reserved final full frontal penetration will finally break Brutus Legio Line. as my example explanation... the battle have to be fought centuria by centuria, maniple by maniple, and finally cohors by cohors. and it is only after the final colapse of the Cohors defense will a breaking gaps will be achieved. could you tell your own battle story so we can digest it.

there was Roman Equites Quingenaria in every legio designed to shock frontally the enemy line ... normally position in the cuneus wedge at the beginning of the battle, but will rotationally retreat after the actual initial engagement, at the rear of the Primum Agmen of the legio... this is not the same of the Cohors Equites Turmae. the primary purpose of the frontal attack was to off set the weak frontal line of the enemy and make some gaps, if the line was over extended and the rear reserved is not enough... the cavalry will frontally attacked and to made some gaps [the primary function and purpose] to be exploited later by forwarding penetrating testudo. while the legio Hastatus Manipular Acies will closely press on forward. even when the enemy infantry do collapse... it is not the cavalry who will mop them down. but the Hastatus will press forward to occupy the front line place while the Princeps will press the enemy reserved men. it is the job of the legio antepilanus supernumerary men to further pursue the retreating enemy.

these camp lay out and size could be subject to many possible error. first it may not even be capable to house even only the First Cohors due to their number. the tent could only roughly contain less than a 5 hundred men. then the via Decumana should be in the rear or back of Fossa and Porta Praetoria,where the Cohors O is. ____________________________________________________________________________________________ as the curia Aediles ended his ceremony while the whole legio and council of war awaited the verdict. the legio Legate stand and deliver what alongside the plebis councilium tributa are known along. that the wind of the coming fall has arrived... and you can begin to smell the snow begin to come. let the preparation for the castra Hiberna begin, so the each milites can at ease for the season. and the wintering camp is being settled.

special note: only 8 cohors do the digging of the FOSSA, and it is called Fossa Fastigata in the first day. in the next day it will become deeper and wider if they ever stay one more day in the same camp. the Triarii Prior and the Triarii Posterior [ 81+81=162 men X 2 Cohors= 324 men] who will do begin the FOSSA. the Praetoria FOSSA Fastigata lenght and width will be translated into 1 meter wide and around 400 to 450 meters long. 1 meter wide, 1 meter deep, and 1.5 meter lenght long per man of the triarii. only the Triarii men will do the dig and the antepilanus triarius will do the carrying of the soil in to the right place, which happen to be only about 1 meter away from the excavation point. their are 2 Cohors who do not take part in the excavation of the ditch.

How lenght wide and long is the Praetoria FOSSA Fastigata in the first day? if every men of the triarii in the 2 cohors determine the lenght distance Praetoria fossa fastigata; then it will be around 400 to 450 meters if every men have a 1.5 meters lenght to excavate. it is the triarii who will determine everything, even the ditch starting point and actual configuration. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a________________________[3]___(2)___[1]____

9 hours in Roman time is the equivalent of 3:00 pm of our modern time. fig.3 the Triarii and Primceps retreat inside the ditch they just excavated.then on act of reserved guard formation. and the Hastatus just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii and Princeps. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base and initial 2 meter height wall. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___##-----___

visual representation of how the Roman Legio do the Ditch. when the Roman arrive in the area to become their camp. they encircle the whole area in Square Formation. the whole legio do a single line of men in battleline formation; Trarii in the rear, facing East [ Right] or toward the enemy. Left is the West means their back. code 3 means Triarii 2 means Princeps 1 means Hastatus c means cursores -- means space a__means land topsoil topography b__means land lowsoil topography or under 1 meter each man will be required to excavate 1 meter depth, 1 meter front lenght and 1.5 meter wide width. in 1 hour work time 6 hours fig.0 a_________________________________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___©__©___ b___________________________________________________________________________________________ 7 hours fig.1 the Triarii determine the line of the ditch, distance and form... and begun the excavation. the excavated soil begome the rampart 1 meter wide base. a________________________________________________________[3]____#--- ___(2)___[1]___©__©___ b_______________________________________________________________!_/________________________ 8 hours fig.2 the Triarii retreat inside the ditch they just excavated. and the Princeps just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base. a__________________________________________________[3]___(2)___## -----__ [1]___©__©_________ b________________________________________________________________!__/________________________ 9 hours fig.3 the Triarii and Primceps retreat inside the ditch they just excavated. and the Hastatus just follow the ditch excavation of the Triarii and Princeps. the excavated soil begome the rampart 2 meter wide base and initial 2 meter height wall. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------# a_____________________________________________[3]___(2)___[1]___##-----___©__©_______________ b_______________________________________________________________!___/________________________

Guarding The Frontline fence each cohors have each own place in the rampart to guard as their responsibilities. Castrorum metatores measure the camp size of the legio. each legiones have each own 'Ligo' as entrenching tools to excavate the ditch. here is the area of responsibilities for each cohors to guide them in their area to guard. cohors 1..from degree 292.5 to 337.5 cohors 2..from degree 022.5 to 067.5 cohors 3..from degree 337.5 to 022.5 cohors 4..from degree 202.5 to 247.5 cohors 5..from degree 112.5 to 167.5 cohors 0..from degree 157.5 to 202.5 cohors 7..from degree 247.5 to 292.5 cohors 8..from degree 067.5 to 112.5

the perfect square are only visual guide for the commoner to easily comprehend and understand the subject being talk. i know very well what you are talking about... did you ever notice that i claim every cohors have each own mini camp. for example: the intervallum space are only around 70 meter [200 feet long] not 90 meter as shown. a quick read in the previous upper post will clarify some details.

the road and pathway inside the Legio Camp the via principales begin at NW point of cohors 7 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 8 camp. there was a horizontal chief main street that runs straight from west to east that is also parallel and in front or north side of cohors 7, cohors 9 and cohors 8. it is not in a perfect equitor of the camp but slightly in favor of the north. the 3 via secundae on horizontal pathway the via secundae 1 begin at NW point of cohors 1 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 2 camp. the via secundae 2 begin at NW point of cohors 4 camp and ends at NE point of cohors 5 camp. the via secundae 3 begin at SW point of cohors 4 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 5 camp. the 4 via secundae on vertical pathway the via secundae 1 begin at NW point of cohors 1 camp and ends at SW point of cohors 4 camp. the via secundae 2 begin at NE point of cohors 4 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 4 camp. the via secundae 3 begin at NW point of cohors 2 camp and ends at SW point of cohors 5 camp. the via secundae 4 begin at NE point of cohors 2 camp and ends at SE point of cohors 5 camp. the 4 via secundae vertical on the North side indirectly connect to the Porta Praetoria. the 4 via secundae vertical on the South side indirectly connect to the Porta Decumana. there is only one road way that directly connect to both end of porta... the via principales. you could try to plot it using the following guide point: 011..002..003..004 333..351..009..027 ------------------297/063 ------------------243/117 207..189..171..153

some explainatory note: to define direction we need to address the following whiere is the north, etc, and etc. then, let's decide the point of direction: the top of the monitor shall be our north and the direction facing the enemy. left as the west, right as the east, and down as the south. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ plotting the camp draw a perfect square composes of 25 square. 90 mm will do in a standard typewriting paper, but i advise the 450 mm measurement in a large paper. .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV V.________________________________H________________________ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww m.l===========================================m V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.......ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo........w._w.ooo.ooo.ooo..w_w..........ooo.ooo.w V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w. V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._.w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w._..w.ooo.ooo.ooo.w V.l...............w....................w._w......................w_w......... V.l...............wwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww_wwwwwwwwwww V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.l......................................................._ V.________________________________g________________________ .VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVMVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV it become very apparent that to closely understant the subject being talk about, plotting it in your own paper work is a very necesary... as it is almost impossible to pin point the exact directional point i am talking about without the aid of technical desciption. for exmple: where is the rampart place beginning and end of responsibility being guarded by the cohors 1. The Camp Gate Porta (LA) gate Porta praetoria - at the North is at at 000 degree Porta principales dextra- at the East is at 081 degree Porta principales sinistra- at the West is at 279 degree Porta decumana - at the South is at 180 degree the via principales there was a horizontal chief main street that runs straight from west to east that is also parallel and in front or north side of cohors 7, cohors 9 and cohors 8. it is not in a perfect equitor of the camp but slightly in favor of the north. here is the point of direction, draw a straight line from point 279 degree to point 081 degree. there was no direct vertical roads that runs straight from porta praetoria to porta decumana. but it they have four indirect vertical roads that i will plot on my next visit.

then let's then analyze how i come to workguess that a legio have more than 6,000 men of war. first; it is an accepted fact that a legio have 10 cohors, that each cohors have 3 manipular acies, composes of Hastatus, Princeps, Triarii. and each manipular acies have the basic 2 centuria lines, by then, let us reconstruct the basic organizational structure of the cohors; __________________________________________________________________________ fig.1 The Cohors [on the Primary Agmen Column] .Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line .Hastatus Posterior .Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line .Princeps Posterior .Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line .Triarius Posterior ___________________________________________________________________________ then, it is also a fact that each cohors have an equitum called cohors equites turmae also known as antisignani equites by their position and signani called signiferi centuria fig.2 The Cohors .Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line .Hastatus Posterior .Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line .Princeps Posterior .Cohors Equites Turmae......The Cohors Command Line .Signiferi Centuria .Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line .Triarius Posterior __________________________________________________________________________ as the Roman Legio experience repeated loss and defeat at many battle. they begun to correct many lop holes in their battle line formation, when the manipular acies line become engage at the battle; a breaking of the line become apparent and gaps could be threaten by the enemy counter attack. so they develop a measure they called supernumerary line which means to support the manipular acies. as their function. they are also known as antipilanus which suggest their location and formation fig.3 The Cohors 1.AnteAdstatus 2.Hastatus Prior...................First Manipular Acies Line 3.Hastatus Posterior 4.AntePrinceps 5.Princeps Prior...................Second Manipular Acies Line 6.Princeps Posterior E.Cohors Equites Turmae......The Cohors Command Line 0.Signiferi Centuria 7.AnteTriarius 8.Triarius Prior....................Third Manipular Acies Line 9.Triarius Posterior the figure representation now shows 10 battle line of centuria.

here is the possible formation of the early maniple acies: choice your location; maniple is literally mean the handfulor the left and right the cursores line,the velitarius;shield: parmula the left centuria ---------------------------------the right centuria o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/....o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/.. o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/....o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/.. o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/....o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/.. o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/....o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/..o/.o/.o/.o/.o/.. the main battle line,the legionarius ;shields: parma the left centuria ---------------------------------the right centuria 0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/....0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/.. 0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/....0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/.. 0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/....0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/.. 0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/....0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/..0/.0/.0/.0/.0/.. i love to be the plebianas military tribunus who commanded the first in battle line cohors

erratum notice: i notice that there are many typographical error, misplace code, seniority place and misnomen, i wish to correct. before i finish my calculation on how to do the 'ditch' M [means Lupus] stands for praetoria gate passage spike drawbridge. Lupus or 'wolf' is a spike drawbridge in the main gate on porta praetoria.